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shibshib

And to many people in the Middle East, western cultures exploit their children considerably... women walking around in bikinis, children wearing makeup, holding hands, even kissing.

You are exactly right... where do we draw the line? Or, rather, who's drawn line do we respect?

I like to be as universally zen as possible... and if I were to immediately assume that my views on sexuality are universal and that there is no way those pictures could be artistic, then I must either admit that I am a hypocrit, or believe that many middle eastern cultures are also wrong for their beliefs which say I am wrong.

For the record, this "universal zen" also means I am completely against the death penalty.

But then again, I pride myself in rarely being hypocritical in my beliefs.

*shrug*

edit: as for you worrying about some guy down the street being sexually turned on by such art... since when should we allow mental disorders to trump freedom of expression, speech, and art?

People who are sick will continue to be sick. I highly doubt an art exhibit is going to change someone's mental condition.

Double edit: Haha, I just realized... how many of our own parents have taken pictures of us as children naked. They most likely weren't deliberate to take a photo of us "naked"... but I can think of a handful of myself... in the tub, one where I was running around the house naked with a bucket on my head... just being a wacky naked kid... my parents and relatives--as emberassing as the photos may be now--think they are adorable. My girlfriend thinks they are cute... I wonder if she should be locked up =P.

I guess the real line here in the main stream media is the act of "exhibiting" the photos to the public. Showing slides of your kids being cute is ok to friends and families... but trying to show the world how cute your kid is... I guess that is somehow a crime.

 

MW_cobain

i think its a type of art, but theres some limits,

Ler

I think this is real question at hand. To some of us underage artful nudes might be overstepping the bounds of art and to some it's perfectly fine. Overall the line we respect is our cultures and our society's, they may not be the individual opinion but in general such lines are there for protection of some sort. This sort of thing doesn't blur the line it's just us trying to thin it, make it the most specific it can be and thats too hard for us as a people.

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glorious

Why is Dark being groaned at so much in this post? He wasn't being offensive in any way.. I'm actually surprised more people didn't take that stance.

I can see this as art but can also understand why people would be so upset about a 13 year old girl being shown nude. Yes, some societies are different, but look at our culture. Turn on the tv and you will see "to catch a predator" re-run all day. Open your local news police blotter, and there are sex offenders being shown. It is drilled into our heads that a person that young being shown nude is exploitation, not art. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it's the way it is here (I'm assuming it's the same in Australia).

Not to mention, a 13 year old is often easily influenced by their parents. Whose to say this is not the case. This girl may be completely humiliated by this down the road...

Ler

I'm also a little surprised at the groans, what happened to value in different ideas. The past should show us that everyone agreeing is always bad.

 

dedbr

My son looked at this and said, "What's the big deal? Look on my-space and You-tube. You can see better stuff than this..."

He showed me some of the girls he's been dating. They are hot naked. I don't mean art hot either. These girls, some of them are fourteen, are showing it and liking it. My boy is helping me come into the 21'st century on a lot of this........I do believe I am somewhat prudish about reality.

I'm beginning to think though that the world is passing me by a bit, and I don't really care. I think she's nice looking. Is she being exploited? If she had a swimsuit or bra and panties on, would that make a difference?

All this is a matter of opinion. Is it art or not. I wonder if we should just answer yes or no and be done with it? No discussion at all. Because then you start getting into personal beliefs and the law and that's just pushing it too far as far as I'm concerned.

Is it art or not? Hell guys, everything can be and is art as far as I'm concerned. It just hasn't been seen that way yet..........


Some Where In Ded Land..............

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GateKeeper2000

I look at it as art but I also agree with Dark that a lot of people would touch themselves to those same pictures...

Just the other night at work I had a 14 year old girl hitting on me (I'm 21) who was wearing very skimpy clothes and trying to make sexual contact. She was also trying to get me to buy booze for her and her friends. It's a good thing I have strong will power because a few of my buddies who were hanging out said they would have gone for it.

And I groaned Woocha's first post because his reply was over the top and he was the one screaming from a soap box, not Dark.

dedbr

Number three son was out mowing the lawn for me without his shirt and and a car full of girls saw him, yelled at him and cat-called and turned around and came back. None of them were over 16 probably, but son 3 is really buff and I knew it was sexual because they pulled their tops off and flashed some nice swimsuit for the old dad. But have no doubt, they were their for the stud, not the old gray haired pappy. They tried to get him to take a ride with them but he said he had work to do and they could come back later after he cleaned up. There going to be here about six or so, I checked the condom supply and told him it was all good. They sure did smell good too......Old Dedbr doing the fieldwork for the male species......

Now this part is almost a sure thing. He will have sex with two of those girls tonight. They will be partying and drinking a Heini or two and just having some good teenage fun. I used to do the same thing when I was a kid. They told him to bring his cut-oofs so they coulp hit the pool, so i know if I was there I would have a good time......... And I trust junior to have one too.

If it was photographed, is that child porn? Is what those girls and old studly were doing was made into a movie, would it be just what it is, some teenagers exploring their sexuality and life in general, or a disgusting sex tape full of porno that shouldn't be allowed to be seen?

We in America have a sexual hang-up. We can't seen to get our thinking caps on about what is allowable and what's not. It changes every day. With the easy accesiblity of child porn and even worse sexual practices on the web we need to see the deluge that is upon us rather than the little part of it we see as porn. Devient sexual practices on the web are every where. I read an article the other month about teenage, unerage girls were doing porno for a fee off a website they had and if the guys wanted something special it was extra. She was pulling eighty to ninety thousand a month just from the subscriptions. Lord only knows what she made on the specials. Her parents became suspicius when they found a savings accout book with over a hundred grand. .

She didn't stop, though. Now she has two other girls who work with her and they've expanded the site for the male interest as far as boy's liking boys......All underage. She's banking. And what is she really doing? Nothing. She's just using what she's got to bank while she can.........I'm actually happy for her.

I can go to any womens magazine and find pictures of half clothed women. I don't need a hustler or Playboy. There's plenty of young girls in there for me just in the adds.........

Pornography? If you want to see it that way, that's cool as shit, dude. I just disagree. In a society as confused as ours is about so much, I'm glad we have other opinions because it helps me see the other side better. That doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinion, I sure do like the conversation, though........


Some Where In Ded Land..................

AnotherToker

I personally think those pictures go over the line. I understand that peoples opinions, like cultures across this earth, are vastly different than eachother and that this may be considered fine in alot of places and minds.

However, being a father, if that was MY daughter and I saw those pictures...pissed off would be an understatement. I suppose Ill leave it at that

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W o O c H a

I hate my dad, will never respect my dad...ever, not even in Ded land. I sure wish I had a father like you though, you kind of sound like the role model I'd like to set for my children when they eventually come. knocks on wood for no child for atleast 15 years.

But your thoughts are quiet amazing and I have to concur with about everything you say, wait what?, I agree with every fuckin word you said and maybe just MAYBE if america would we wouldn't have such a fucked up society.


PS: You ever decide to run for president you got my vote homie.