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j-ho

I have two focuses for this post. First, I'm wondering if my state college (not private!) can legally require me to take a hair drug test which, if failed, would cause me to be dismissed with no refund of tuition. To complicate the legality issues, I was not informed of this requirement before entering the program (and giving them all my money). AND, I am employed in a field that from time to time exposes me to marijuana smoke in people's homes which, I understand, can occasionally cause false positives on the test. The program I'm taking this test for, ironically, is to gain a more advanced certification in my current field! I've been doing legal research on my own and can find no precednce that would lead me to believe this is legal -- the only drug testing rulings apply only to participants in athletic or other extra-curricular programs in public schools. The hair drug test is going back 3-6 months and will be done next on the 11th -- the 3rd week of classes. It just seems wrong to the core that I would be punished for something that occured months before I even applied to go to school.

Second, I've got another of the "help-me-pass-my-test" queries. I know it's probably annoying to see brand new forum members repeating the same question over and over, but I'm going to ask anyway because there are some kind of unique variables that I haven't seen addressed yet. Hopefully you'll forgive and offer some advice...

I've been smoking about 3-5x weekly, maybe 6-8 hits daily for about a few months. I quit immediately upon hearing about the test and will be exactly 3 weeks clean when they start snipping. I've read so much "Our stuff works and nobody else's does" crap on the internet by this point that I'm pretty damn discouraged about the whole thing. The one site I've found that seems to be providing information without selling something (other than this one, of course) is Passahairdrugtestdotcom/methods_to_beat_a_hair_drug_test. Unfortunately, though, I did a Whois registry search for that site and the ONE product site they say works very well and, suprise, they're owned by the same company. So. My gut feeling right now is that I'd just be wasting my money buying any of the "100% guarantee!" crap.

I'm 6'1 and have medium length, thick, curly brown hair. I'm in good physical shape, though not a superwoman with 0 body fat. I'm going to go buy the products used in the Mac method tomorrow but wonder if I should opt for any of the Zydot, Toxin Wash, etc. products.

Another issue that complicates things is that I work nights and then go to school during the day. I'll be working the night before my test and will not have time between work and school to use any treatment -- I barely have time to get changed and to class. Should I consider doing some kind of body detox to prevent re-contamination of my hair after the last treatment I'm able to get in (which will be approx. 16 hrs before the test)?

I appreciate any feedback anyone has. I know no one can say "do x, y, and z and you'll be AOK" and I'm not looking for that. I'm just very frustrated at this point and would like to hear anything real people have to say about things. Thanks!

 

FakeBoobsRule

J-ho, I checked your link because it may soon disappear soon but they specifically addressed the Macujoy method, which is found here. LMAO! That is wild. As many before have done in this community, they even misspelled his handle. Sadly, he has shown us the way not to be heard from since! They also talked about Aloe Rid which is talked about here a lot and probably in other places. But this website is talking liberties with the actual facts and are manipulating them slightly. You said the site isn't trying to sell anything yet it is, through a redirect, something you attest to later in your post.

The two factual misrepresentations that website makes is first of all, if they had done so much research on this maybe they could get the treatments right. Macujoy requires you to use the vinegar and clear and clean at the same time. Their description of the method is off a little of at least it sounds like they says use the vinegar, then the clean and clear, then tide. This isn't that big of a deal but if they knew so much how hard is it to follow 3 small steps. Also, if they did all this research they would know it is not Aloe Rid shampoo but Aloe Rid Treatment. Big difference in the two products. Also, Aloe Rid is usually used with something else, not by itself.

Also a test sample of 6 people is ridiculous. No accurate study can be conducted on a sample size this small.

I also find their breakdown of the Macujoy method curious. They claim that the acid in the clean and clear isn't strong enough to penetrate and clean. We have several people on here who have tried to figure out how the method works. None of these mechanisms of action are proven, they are all theories. However, no one has a theory that the salicylic acid cleans the hair. The 2 prevailing theories are the Tide which is a base bonds to THC-COOH, which is an acid or the first 2 chemicals, the acids, help to open the hair to allow the Tide to wash it clean (this is what I believe). Again, they seem to manipulate the method to make it sound like the clean and clear is the key just so they can state the clean and clear is not strong enough to clean the hair.

Now, this website is one of the ones that claims that if you have long hair buy two. Afterburner is another website that says this and their product gets horrible results. Is this a scientific approach to how well their product works? No, but it shows you a little bit into their marketing practice. For instance, instead of buy two bottles to wash your hair and body hair, why not, when possible, treat your head, and make sure you are free of all other body hair except eyebrows. That way you force the sample to come from the head. That is what I did and several others. I know this isn't possible say if you are bald but then why would you need one for your head and one for your body? Seems like a marketing scam. Also, in their FAQ section, they claim body hair has a higher concentration of drugs in it. I have never seen solid proof of this and their reasoning behind it is very suspect. If it grows slower that doesn't necessarily mean it has more drugs in it. Blood supply to the hair is going to remain pretty much constant no matter how fast it grows. If you think this slower growth might mean a longer history, well they take this slower growth rate into account at the labs.

I also found their prep work for this product disturbing. Using coal tar shampoo? Neutrogena makes an anti-residue shampoo to remove buildup from conditioners to styling products and it is not the coal tar formula.

They also attacked Zydot shampoo, which is one of the biggest sellers if not the biggest seller. I called Zydot and they said their shampoo removes toxins. I know it includes a conditioner but it is a 3 step process and I don't remember them saying anything about the conditioner helping to seal in toxins. The member Cyclops says that studies show Zydot can decrease toxins by around 20%. I'm not sure where she got this but she is pretty solid. I used Zydot and about 20 Macujoy treaments. I also did some other things which might be overkill. If you want to read my post it is in the hair results thread around June 23rd, 2006. I bought 3 different detox shampoos and eventually used the Zydot and I really liked it.

As far as your situation goes, you have about 9 days to get ready. Try to do some daily Macujoy treatments and use Paul Mitchell 3 shampoo, or the Aloe Rid treatment or Malibu in between Macujoy treatments. If you want to buy a detox shampoo, I recommend the Zydot. With 21 days clean and being able to do your last hair treatment 16 hours before the test, this may pose a problem. They say there is a threshold of 3 times over 90 days that has to be met. If you can clean your hair as best as you can, maybe the little bit of hair that might have a little bit of drug in it that gets pushed out during the last 16 hours won't be enough. You will have 21 days clean which would probably be enough time for your body to stop depositing THC metabolites in hair and for that hair to come to the surface.

As far if this is legal, I am sorry, I don't know. Call the ACLU in your state, maybe they will know and might be curious to hear this.

I can't believe they addressed the Macujoy method!!!!!!!!!!! I can believe they misspelled it.

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1tokeovertheline

I can't help with legal issues, but can give you info on your drug test. First of all, second hand smoke will not affect your results.

Go with the MacCujo method the day before and the day of or in your case as close as you can. Try to get in a least to sessions of the method. Massage the ingredients in while soaking. Don't just soak.

Some people have used Zydot along with the Mac method with good results.

Good luck and post your results.

cyclops

This product is a sham! The website you quoted is clearly trying to sell you the Toxin Wash shampoo and is full of many typos and errors. The most serious is this quote: ".....It is a nice try, but you need to have a strong industrial prepared acid (like the one on Toxin Wash) to really penetrate the cuticles". According to the Toxin Wash website (which is owned by the same people according to your reseach) this shampoo contains 3 main components
i) EDTA (a neutral compound that removes cations from a system - this will NOT remove THC and is an ingredient in MANY products such as regular shampoo, detergent, food etc.etc.etc)
ii) Several dyes and some fragrance.
iii) Triethanolamine - the active ingredient. Well guess what folks? This is a weak BASE!! In fact, this compound can't have a pH more basic than 10 and thats in its most concentrated form!

The Toxin Wash website also states the active ingredient is made from a strong acid and a weak base as if this is somehow relevant. This acid/base combination always provides a weakly basic salt. Rock salt is made from a strong acid and a strong base - this combination will always give a neutral salt. Anyways, the website tries to make you believe their shampoo is acidic because the salt was made from a strong acid!


Overall, I would stay well clear of this shampoo. Incidently, Zydot and some of the other shampoos referred to on their site are not masking shampoos - another factual misreprensentation. Incidently, these shampoos also contain triethanolamine and I had wondered several months ago if this was the active ingredient in the detox shampoos. Bases are also known to destroy hair.

As Boobs said, I often state Zydot can reduce THC-COOH by up to 20% per wash. I got this information from a link somewhere on this website to a reputable scientific publication. Anything publishes in a journal is a good source of information. I will try and dig the link up.

UV light is also known to cause decompostion of THC-COOH and the process is accelerated by hydrogen peroxide (again, shown in a paper to be the case). The action of H2O2 on THC-COOH on its own will also likely catalyse decomposition of the substance. In this regard, I would suggest bleaching your hair and dying it back before the test (1-2 weeks before the test). If you look at the ingredient list on the hair dye products you will find some of them contain triethanolamine and H2O2 in addition to a slew of other products (more active ingredients than Toxin wash and its cheap). As hair bleach clearly penetrates the hair shaft and contains ingredients known to decompose THC-COOH this cant do any harm. Likewise, sun exposure will be very beneficial.

Like Boobs and 1Toke suggest, use the Mac method leading up to the test. The number of times you do it is up to you but definitely, use the Mac method the day of the test. I understand you are busy, but taking a night off work or not getting any sleep the night before the test is better than the consequences of failing the test and you want to do everything in your power to help yourself pass.

cyclops

Here is a link to the abstract I refer to:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Looks like I got the numbers wrong, the reduction of THC-COOH is up to 36% (not 20%). This is quite a significant improvement and that is with only 1 treatment.


I can only give an opinion on the legal side of things. It seems to me any institution can require you to do a drug test BUT if passing one is a requirement to enter a job or college or stay in that position then you would need usually need to be made aware of that before starting. Although you only have found this out now I would check the college policy/rule book to see if anything is stated on drug testing and also check everything you signed to see if the fine print states anything about drug tests. Unfortunately, when you signed all your paperwork, you may have signed something to the effect that you would abide by all the rules of the college and one of those rules (hidden in a policy manual somewhere) was you had to be drug-free. If they have a written procedure that you will be given a test within the first x weeks of school or are subject to random testing and will be kicked out of college if you fail then you are SOL legally as the information is available even if not immediately obvious. Colleges are also pretty crafty and cover themselves for all situations by making you sign something stating that you will abide by any new rules they may implement (in case the drug testing is a new thing)

 

Sec

Thank you, Cyclops for that answer.

You also might consider posting your question in the Legal Forum
link: here

More people in the legal field would read the legal forums and are more likely to see your question than in the testing forums.

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j-ho

I shaved my head.

My hair was about 2' long, extending to the middle of my back. It's all in a zip lock bag now. I've always shaved my body hair so now the only hair on my entire body is eyebrows and eyelashes. It's my understanding that this will not be enough hair to test and to make sure I'm going to pluck my eyebrows very thin. I bought a home urine test (which I passed with two flying colored lines) to ensure that I could pass any other testing method before doing this. There are several guys already in the class that have shaved heads and I know at least two have shaved everything else, also, so I don't see how they can do anything to me without being blatently discriminatory just because I'm now a bald chick.

Thank you all very much for your intelligent replies. It's very refreshing to stumble upon an internet forum and find people with well thought out, articulate replies. Though I'm not worried about the testing for myself at this point, I still feel it's very wrong and will post the legal aspect of the question in the legal section of this forum.

Thank you again!

ETA -- I just tried to make a post in the legal forum and was told I was not permited to access the page. Do you need to become a paying member to do this?

cyclops

Lack of hair can be automatic grounds for failing a test especially under suspicious circumstances - a female shaving her head a week before a hair test is one of them so I wouldnt have recommended this route. A male with no hair is also suspicious. Also be warned: if they dont see this as a problem and use another testing method they can take nail shavings so unless you pluck out all your finger and toe nails you will be in worse shape than if they took a hair sample that you could treat. If you are really lucky and they take urine, you will be okay.

1tokeovertheline

Simple fact: No hair, no test. No test, no pass.

cyclops

Just curious, what was the outcome? Its always appreciated when posters post their results