A cop's strategy in determining a high?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Stepchild, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Stepchild

    Stepchild New Member

    So I was watching COPS this morning and a cop pulled over a lady for something. Can't remember. Anyways, when he gets up to her window, he notices a marijuana pipe and asks her to step out of the car. He talks to her for a bit before searching some more and asks her if she is stoned. She tells him that she's not.

    Then, he says, "Ok I'm going to get you to tilt your head back and close your eyes." She does that and then he looks at her face for a bit and says, "C'mon girl! You're so stoned. Why are you lying to me?"

    I thought that to be an odd test... Is there anyway he could have determined she was high by her doing that or was he just making shit up?
  2. Hemostrat

    Hemostrat New Member

    Not too sure of that test but I know the eye test works. If you have someone follow your finger when you're stoned (maybe drunk too?) their eye(s) will focus and follow your finger but will unconsciously bounce back to the middle and then back to the finger.
  3. Zocalo

    Zocalo Sr. Member

    Not for me...eye tests are BS
  4. Jared_320

    Jared_320 New Member

    These tests are effective for cops that have experience doing this. QUESTION thought, if you put in eye drops doesn't this make these test inaccurate or ineffective?
  5. suomi

    suomi New Member

    googled and found some posts re eye tests in two forums: one for TX District and County Attys and the other for LEOs (where civilians can ask questions and cops will answer). not posting links, since their webmasters might get way too excited about hits originating from this site. googled again to see what all the alphabet lingo was about

    HGN = horizontal gaze nystagmus
    VGN = vertical gaze nystagmus

    NHTSA = national highway traffic safety administration
    DRE = drug recognition expert
    OVI = operating vehicle (while) impaired

    I have the 1993 manual published by the U.S. Department of Commerce and NHTSA entitled "The Drug Recognition School". Part of the DRE testing involves not only the HGN but also four other eye tests: vertical nystagmus, lack of convergence, pupil size, and pupil reaction to light.

    According to the manual, HGN can recognize "CNS Depressants", PCP, and "Inhalents". It cannot detect CNS Stimulants, Hallucinogens, Narcotic Analgesics, or Cannibis. (Chapter V, Page 1)

    Does Marijuana cause nystagmus?

    The reason I ask is that my LE academy instructor told me it does NOT. On the other hand my friend who attended a different LE academy in a different state was taught that Marijuana DOES cause nystagmus. We've talked it over several times and now we both just aren't positive who's right, since we were both taught by "professionals".

    Marijuana alone will not cause Nystagmus, however it often causes a lack of convergence.

    THC in your system leads to the following physiological changes or clues:
    Horizontal gaze nystagmus not present; vertical gaze nystagmus not present; lack of convergence present; pupil size normal to dilated; reaction to light normal to slow; pulse rate elevated; blood pressure elevated; body temperature normal to elevated.

    When you perform you symptomology evaluation, 'lack of convergence' means the subject's inability to cross their eyes when you draw two large circles in the air, ending on the tip of their nose. The 'average' person can maintain a few seconds of looking at your finger, while it is on the tip of their nose. Lack of convergence means one of the eyes will slowly draw out, even though they are trying to look at your finger.

    I was always taught that marijuana would cause nystagmus, particularly vertical nystagmus. Wasn't vertical nystagmus added as a required component of the standardized test as a marijuana indicator?

    Personally, I can't remember if I've ever gotten a marijuana only OVI with nystagmus clues. I've gotten plenty with marijuana and alcohol...

    Like they taught in DRE School, the DIP drugs will induce nystagmus to the point where the naked eye can see it: Depressants, Inhalants, and Pcp. Oh, and the Lack of Convergence Test is really cool to watch. Also look for raised taste buds, but don't "hang your hat on any one sign."

    Granted, VGN is probably going to be more visible with Disassociative Anesthetics (PCP, etc), but to say that it is rare in other drug cases is not accurate. I would say that more than 50% of my DWI arrests the person exhibits VGN, and there is no PCP on board. All VGN indicates is a high dose of the (HGN displaying) drug for that particular individual.

    To answer the original poster's question, marijuana alone will not cause HGN to be visible, nor will it cause VGN to be visible.
    4 people like this.
  6. SixShottaJ

    SixShottaJ Sr. Member

    few years ago they made me follow their finger, then i had to follow a mini flashlight.. apparently I failed lmao and they called in the dogs on my whip and i got fucked
  7. troublemaker420

    troublemaker420 New Member

    Keep in mind many officers are certified "Drug Recognition Experts" (commonly reffered to as DRE's in my area)who have specialized training in determining if someone is on drugs, and what drugs they are likely on. These officers are trained to recognize drug use in a wide variety of ways, anything from the person's eyes to how many breaths the person takes in a given time, and many other factors. While any ONE of these methods are not conclusive, they have a high degree of accuracy when the totality of evidence is considered, and its rare when a drug test doesn't confirm the officer's suspicions.
  8. Stepchild

    Stepchild New Member

    It just seemed weird that a two second look at someone with their eyes closed and head tilted up would convince him without a doubt that she was high
  9. SleepyJohn

    SleepyJohn Sr. Member

    It's simple. I got addicted to watching cops for awhile. "They" ask You all these questions, shine a flashlight in their eyes,and decide they're on 'Drugs"[pot]. The main thing they do, is look in the ashtray, and SMELL the culprit. No DEA Dope-Dogs, just a whiff of skiff!
  10. SixShottaJ

    SixShottaJ Sr. Member

    Yeah I've never heard of that method... It sounds like bullshit IMO but you never know I guess. But the main thing that gives away someones high IS THEIR EYES, so I don't know what they achieve with a persons eyes closed... Maybe he was just saying that to bullshit her for her to admit to it or something.. I have no idea!
  11. jmhereiam

    jmhereiam New Member

    my experience with cops, even when they found the pipes and MJ in the car, and it was quite obvious me and my friends were smokin pot as they rolled up, they never did any eye test. They simply asked if we were under the influence right now and we said no. They said "Ok, just wanted to make sure before we let ya drive off". No matter how much I smoke my eyes never get very red, they stay in a normal redness level, they get more glossy than anything... and if im really baked my eyes kinda twitch back to the middle like someone before said, so thats the only way I really see them getting me. I can usually get my brain to take over the high effects if I really need them to in a situation like that though.
  12. DRE

    DRE New Member

    The police officer was looking for eye tremors. He watches her eyelids; if she is stoned they ofter will "flutter".
  13. DRE

    DRE New Member

    Cannabis does NOT cause HGN or VGN, but it will cause LOC (lack of convergence). Only CNS Depressants, Inhalants, and Disociative Anesthetics (PCP, Ketamine and analogs) will cause HGN & VGN.
  14. DRE

    DRE New Member

    No. And Visene (sp?) will only clear the white of the eye that is exposed to oxygen. If your eyelids are pulled down it will be red as ever. Marked reddening of the conjunctiva is a dead giveaway.
  15. DRE

    DRE New Member

  16. mondaymonkey

    mondaymonkey Sr. Member

    All cops arn't DRE's and in my jurisdiction, they must declare themselves as DRE's before excersing powers afforded to DRE's above and beyond a regular cop.
  17. East Bay Ray

    East Bay Ray New Member

    check out the film "never get busted again"

    google it, it will be worth the purchase (or download)
  18. troublemaker420

    troublemaker420 New Member

    The man's accuracy and credibility have been brought into question numerous times. Take anything you learn from Barry Cooper with a grain of salt. While there is some decent info, one has to have a solid background in the law to sort fact from fiction, which most people don't. They simply follow the advice, good or bad, blindly, and will likely be suprised when they find themselves busted, despite the title of the video!
  19. DRE

    DRE New Member

    There are only 65 DRE's in Pennsylvania . . . 16 thousand some total for the US, Canada and DC.

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