SUBSTITUTION: Tips, tricks and guidelines by N2

Discussion in 'Urine Testing' started by IamN2pot, Dec 23, 2003.

  1. LuckyDucky

    LuckyDucky New Member

    I did it!! I'm the newest member of the sub club! It was incredibly easy and I was worried sick over nothing, they didn't even make me empty my pockets. I will sub every time from now on.

  2. californiabud

    californiabud New Member

    Another successful substitution story!

    I wanted to post my story here, because reading 77 pages of posts before me gave me the confidence and know-how to successfully sub myself.

    I was 4.5 weeks clean and passing home tests at 50 ng for over a week, but since I could not be 100% sure that I was going to pass at 20 ng, I decided to sub. This was for a pre-employment screen for a killer hospital job and failure was not an option.

    The key, like so many post here, is to practice, practice, practice!

    As a female, at home I tried crotching it, putting it you-know-where (uncomfortable and just couldn't abide it) and finally chose to put the 3oz. lotion bottle between my ample bosoms with a heating pad rubber banded to it. The girls are large enough and the top I wore was loose enough you couldn't see a thing. I knew from practice that I could easily keep the urine at 100+ degrees and I found that it cooled down to body temp within a minute or so.

    I got clean urine from my preschool-aged son two days ago and kept it in the fridge. No problems there, but not one of my proudest moments as a momma.

    I went in to the test scared but I also have nerves of steel so I managed. I had to see HR first to do some paperwork and take my badge picture, all the while I have a bottle between my boobs! My drop was not a lab, but done by an occupational health nurse at the hospital itself. I dressed professionally, a confidence booster but also a bit of social engineering -- who expects an overweight, 40 year old soccer mom to fail a drug screen?!

    Anyway, finally it was time and it was just like described here and the many pre-employment screens I have done in the past. Left my purse in another locked room and given the key. Didn't even ask me to empty pockets. The nurse showed me the restroom, put the drops of blue in the toilet, told me to not flush or wash my hands, and to set the cup when I was done on the counter and call her in. It had a temp strip on it so as soon as I closed the door, I poured to give it a chance to cool while I sat down to void myself in the toilet. By the time I wiped and pulled my pants up it was at 99 and with another 20 sec of blowing and swishing, it was at 98, so I called her in.

    She came in, verified the temp and put it in the single sample bottle. We went to another room where I watched her triple seal it with my stickers, put it in a box and pull the other samples from the day out of the fridge to send off Fedex since mine was the last of the day. The sample is going to PAML in Spokane, WA. Told me the results would be available in two days. No worries here because I know my sample was clean as a whistle and she checked the temp box on my form as good.

    Thanks to everyone for posting and I hope my story will add to helping future subbers! ;)
  3. pahuyuth

    pahuyuth New Member

    I posted this in the dilution thread first, but it might be more appropriate here...

    I have a pre-employment drug test 5 days from today. Last time I smoked weed was ~3-4 weeks ago, and I smoked a bowl or two per day for a month before I quit. I'm 40, 6'0" 195 lbs with an average metabolism. Last night I took a FirstCheck home test, and failed.

    The testimonies here about dilution are pretty positive, and the method seems simple enough but I'm still pretty nervous as I need this job very badly.

    My question is about synthetics- the local smoke shop has some (not sure of the brand) and it seems pretty cheap at $29.99, but I'm unsure what to expect at the lab. I don't know which lab I will be going to, and if someone will be present in the room with me. Can anyone tell me the procedures at some of the common larger testing labs, and if I can expect any of them to have someone watch me?

    I'll likely go ahead and do the dilution anyway even if I get the synthetic. However, I'm wondering if I should not use the synthetic first and only use it if I need to re-test due to a diluted sample. I'm thinking that way I would at least know the procedure- i.e. whether or not anyone will accompany me.
  4. Kaida

    Kaida New Member

    I've subbed successfully before and have been reading these forums for hours, but I have a somewhat unique situation now and trying to wrap my head around it so that I can get everything right...I HAVE to fail my ua lol. I have degenerative discs and am in a pain management program, and I take a substantial amount of pain meds. Part of the required ua is checking to make sure that you're taking your meds yourself by being positive for that class of drugs. You also have to be negative for anything else. I can't use synthetic, and I can't use a donor.

    I have been clean for over a year, but I have missed smoking. It makes me happy and less stressed. Just started again and thought I was set with a plan but after reading so much I'm actually more confused.

    Last few days before I started back up I've been taking my meds/eating/drinking as usual and saving some of my pee so I can have a proper specimen for my needs. Mixed it altogether then divided it into 3oz travel shampoo bottles-chose some with sturdy lids but thin plastic sides. I made up 7 samples, and even filled a bottle with water first, cooched it, tested temps at one and two hours, etc. I've done this before and know I won't be observed so I am pretty confident about the logistics. Freezing them all in the bottles because I go to the doc once a month but don't always get tested-I want to have one available each visit anyway, and didn't want to thaw out more than what I needed at a time. In theory doing it this way I can smoke freely for the next year before I have to refrain again for a fresh batch of samples:metal:

    My question is-will the good "dirty" in my urine still be there after freezing/thawing? I mean whatever the metabolites (?) that are tested for them to know I'm taking my meds? And will those be affected if I have to filter sediments out of the pee when I thaw it? I know it might be a longshot but hoping someone in a similar situation (or even just someone who's knowledgeable about all the science-y stuff) can reassure me. Wanted to make my own thread to ask but keep getting logged out when I try, maybe I'm too new.
  5. pahuyuth

    pahuyuth New Member

    So, my pre-employment drug test today was a major pain in the ass.

    The lab office was a fucking nightmare. Not only were they short staffed and had no idea who was next line, who had an appointment vs walk in, or what was going on in any sense of the term, there was a mother with two young boys that were literally wrecking the lobby. They were wrestling, throwing shit, and screaming. Of course, she paid very little attention to the kids or the other people making comments to "CALM YOUR FUCKING CHILDREN DOWN".

    Anyway.. the test- I bought some Ultra Klean synthetic, and as a backup I diluted. It's a goddamn good thing I did too because the Ultra Klean bottle leaked in my pocket, so I lost half of it. It looked like I pissed in my pants.

    I had already been waiting for over an hour when it was finally my turn, and my bladder was about to explode. I used the Ultra Klean that I had left, and filled the rest of the cup with my own urine. On a dilution test run over the weekend I tested negative with a home kit, so hopefully it will all work out.

    Fingers crossed it will!
  6. LuV2SmOkE

    LuV2SmOkE New Member

    i found this forum last night, after having a job interview and being told i was goin at 1pm today for a drug test! :oops: knowing i last smoked sum green the night before. So after reading this, i decided it was best to hav my "clean" friend piss for me, i re read this like 5 times! oh yea, an i practiced, practiced PRACTICED lol! i did the whole travel shampoo bottle thing, an to my surprise i did awesum, it deff wasnt the most comfy i've been n my life, but its a step closer to this new job, which i need sooo bad, im a 22 yr old mom. me n the daddy split a few months back, an of course hes not helpin! so anyways, i pulled this off flawlessly!! the temp was perfect!!! so after i get outta this office, i getta call from my friend tellin me tht she has been on 'lortab' tht the dentist prescribed and asked if i thought tht might effect this piss test, and i have no idea if it will or not. figures, my luck one way or another imma fail this test!! so would sumbody on here help me with my question???? plezzzzzz
  7. JJJ35

    JJJ35 New Member

    Chalk another one down for the sub-club this really is 100% foolproof if you do it right.
    1 cough syrup bottle
    1 thin strip of tape to go along lid of bottle so it doesn't leak everywhere
    2 pair whitey tighties
    1 pair boxer briefs
    1 digital thermometer i got mine at cvs for $7
    1 pack of Hot Hands - 2 handwarmers (1 for practice run)
    Kept 98 degrees for 1 hour and 20min.

    Nestle the bottle in your gooch, then a pair of whities then the hot hands warmer (give 10min out of pack in the air first to heat it up) then 2nd pair of whities then boxer briefs on outside. I then tucked my thermometer into all 3 making sure it was held good and didnt show. Then just keep the heat on in your car and legs together till your test. Pop thermo into your cough syrup bottle to check temp and poor into test bottle. Goodluck and Practice!
    KEM37 likes this.
  8. LaTx

    LaTx New Member

    Good evening all, was told today that I must take a drug test tomorrow for a job. Got laid off my old job and was pretty bummed and chief'd quite a bit after, that was on May 17, I smoked for about a week after, quit for 2 weeks, and smoked last Thursday night around 10 p.m. 3 hits off a one hitter, haven't smoked since. Took a drug test I snaked from the place I used to work at, and tested positive, however, I pissed right into the cup without letting any in the bowl first. I also have taken a few pain pills, so diluting is not an option. Going with the quick fix 5.7. I have had a few trial runs with a similar bottle and I walked in front of my family and asked if they could tell I had the bottle between my legs and they couldn't. I'm thinking at this point, the only thing holding me back is the temp, that is unless the shit just doesn't work. I really need this job, so I'm hoping it works out. I will post my results.
    KEM37 likes this.
  9. mark p

    mark p New Member

    Just wanted to thank you N2 for your help. I smoked Friday and Saturday night, stopped after that and took a 9 bar test that thursday (5 days later), using dillution method with a creatine load and some ON vitamins for color and i PASSED!
    P.S. I would recommend the creatine load because i got a negative dilute on my first test and had to retake it.
  10. LaTx

    LaTx New Member

    Just touching base and letting everyone know my results, method I used was substitution, product was quick fix 5.7, I was on my way to the place to fill out my form because I figured that I would need to bring it to a clinic and test there, I had a feeling something was fishy so I tucked the bottle before I left at correct temp with the heating pad. As I suspected they were just going to do a 10 panel instant on site with no lab verification unless a positive sample was provided. Was a breeze, got my cup, went into a stall, all I had to do was flip the nozzle and squeeze my legs together and it all came back at temp and negative for any drugs. Thanks to everyone on this site and the people at Spectrum. Feels good to win one over the oppressors.
    KEM37 likes this.
  11. GawdNowWhat

    GawdNowWhat New Member

    Has anyone failed a drug test using Quick Fix? I have heard that they are able to test for it now. I have decided to go with subbing since the dilution method is not working for me. 60 days clean (stopped May 10) and still coming up positive on home test. I am 5'2" 160 lb female with rather large breasts, so am I thinking I will store it under my breasts in a sports bra. Or would you suggest that I wear a skirt and just store it in my crotch. Storing it IN my vagina is not an option because when I tried a test run with a bottle, it just wouldn't go. A psychological response I'm sure, but it just isn't happening. :eek: I really need this job - oh, and it's a 14-panel drug screen, too, for a healthcare system.

    Thanks for any advice!
  12. SmilesALot

    SmilesALot New Member

    Hello all, I am new to the forum, but have pretty much read this entire thread over the past few days lol. I have a drug test coming up for pre employment on friday. I am taking my dad with me and he is going to pee for me. If he pees in like an aspirin bottle right before I walk into the testing site and I stick a hand warmer around it and stick it by my crotch, will it be too warm? I have a family of 4 and this employment just came out of nowhere and within a week I have had 3 interviews and already have the job. I am not concerned with my ability to pull it off...just concerned about the temperature, which I think is everyone's biggest issue when it comes to subbing. If anyone has any advice for me I greatly appreciate it! Thank you!
  13. WorkingStoner

    WorkingStoner New Member

    Hey Guys,

    Just wanted to add my story to the pot, no pun intended. I am 23 years old about 5'11 and 250lbs with a nonexistent metabolism. I am currently temping at a really good firm and have been smoking multiple times daily (after work to unwind) since the day I took the drug test for the temp agency, about 3 months ago. Well apparently I am doing a great job because they offered my a permanent position with the firm on August 2nd, who says weed makes you useless F-OFF.

    Anyway I was not expecting this to happen or else I would have stopped smoking to prepare for it, but as it always seems to be the case with these things it was sprung on me so I had little options. At first I thought I could stall long enough to get clean on my own. After about a week I knew that was going to be impossible. The drug test is looming and there is no way that i am going to pass honestly.

    First I decided to try the dilution route, for some reason it just seemed easier to me plus i have been weed free now for about 20 days so I thought I could get away with it. After a few dry runs using the home drug testing kit it became clear to me that dilution was not going to do it. I was failing every test I took, 4 in total over a 7 day period, plus it seems way risky. Then I found this thread, probably the 500th I have found while scouring the internet for any kind of help, and thank God I did. After reading the majority of the posts I decided that Subbing is the way to go.

    Luckily the home drug test kits provided me with pretty much all i need to accomplish this. They give you a small 2oz tube which you are supposed to use if you want to send in your sample to a lab for testing It is the perfect size, also the sample cups have sticker temp strips on them so i have that as well. My roommate quit smoking about 6 months ago so I know his wee is clean and thats what I am going to use.

    Here is the plan, which I have practiced to a tee: I have made an appointment for tomorrow morning bright an early before work. My roommate is going to pee into two 2oz tubes (only need one but cant hurt to have a back up) and put them in the fridge so they stay nice and fresh. When I am ready to go in for the test I will remove them from the fridge and warm them up in some hot water to about 105 deg. then immediately stuff'em in the gooch, one on each side between sack and inner thigh, its a perfect fit. The Labcorp is about 20 min away from my house and its timed so the temp will be about 98 degrees on arrival. If i have to wait thats fine from my practicing i know that it will hover around 98 for a while and never really drop. I have taken drug tests before at Labcorp and the procedure is always the same, empty pockets, dont flush or wash hands, you have 4 min.

    I am praying that this will work, and from what you all have said I cant see how it won't. This is a really good job and I have already started to make a name for myself at the company, basically I need this and want it badly. I will definitely report how it goes and hopefully help to save others from what I know to be an extremely stressful time.

    Sorry for the long post, good luck to you all, and pray for me....... here goes nuthin.
    KEM37 likes this.
  14. Trippybtch

    Trippybtch New Member

    Ok so I'm new to this but thanks to this forum and everybody else in the same situation as me - givin a great job opportunity, but Mary is my best friend, im proud to say I'm apart of the Sub Club; Anyways to make a long story short. Ima pot head, who on here isn't tho? This wonderful job opportunity came along, life changing honestly. And well.. I needed to pass the drug test. I was given abt 2 weeks notice, but didn't really care to give up MJ for 2 weeks. I thought abt dilution, for a long time. Using certo.. Even bought some, or just ODing on h2o. I studied it and tried to find ways to master it.. But that's a 50/50 & I needed reassurance. So I light one up ;) & decided to sub. Found a coworker who was clean. Test was at 2. Had her pour her urine from a cup to a 3oz body wash bottle.. And I just put it in my crotch. I was a bit worried bc I had no hand warmers.. Walmart didn't have them and any associate I asked gave me a weird look.. Considering its still summer. Anyways. I put it btwn my undies (2 tight pairs) put a maxi pad on. And left for the test. Abt a 20 min drive. While in car. Decide it'd be best to put bottle on dashboard with heat on. Perfect. Heated urine to abt 115. Got to testing lab, (had to wait abt an hr before I actually got drug tested- paperwork, etc) the actual drug test place was across the street from the hospital I'll be working at. Even better. And I had to walk there. Stopped at bathroom. Checked temp. It read 96.3. Walked across the street, lemme mention it was a hot day out so more body heat. Got there, lab tech did his duties to the bathroom. Told me not to flush, wash hands, etc, gave me up and closes door. Big ass bathroom. So damn easy. Pulled bottle out. Poured in cup (quietly with it tilted to avoid weird noises) poured a lil remaining in toilet. Put tissue in toilet. And there it was. All done. Put bottle back. Handed it to him. Marked that it was the RIGHT temp. Off with my day :). Hopefully I'm not in a situation where I need to do this again. But if I ever am. I will def substitution. And did I mention I didn't even practice this ?! :).
    Happy toting guys !
  15. olehippie

    olehippie Member

    Just passed another DOT random using Quick Fix Plus. That is 6 in the last year that I have passed using this product.
    I am looking at powdered urine to use in the future due to QF being detected in some labs. I dont like to have to worry about detection all the time.
  16. AvidDCSmoker

    AvidDCSmoker New Member

    I joined this forum just to let people know that in 2012 the N2 substitution method works!! I am what would you would call a regular smoker. I smoke about three times a day with 3 to 4 drags taken each time. I have been smoking religiously for about the past 15 years. I am 6'2 and about 200 pounds. I am about the lazies person you can meet and I have a little pot belly so I guess my metabolism isn't the greatest.

    I had to take a Drug Test for a contract but I was able to decide when to take it. I did some research and it seems that now they test for certain cleaners so I didn't want to take a chance. I stopped smoking for only a week and with N2 dilution method I passed with flying colors.The main thing is your creatine levels. They are basically testing colored water with high creatine levels and the masking of aspirin.

    Three days before the test I took about 8 pills a day for two days and stopping the day before the test. I know a lot of people drinking gallons of water days before the test but I think it only really matters the day of. Mine was at 8 AM in the morning so I started drinking the day before at a even pace. I took the aspirin before I went to bed at midnight and woke up at 4 AM to take 4 more. Then I woke up at 6 AM and starting drinking until I was pissing clear like a race horse.

    The only think I did wrong was get B12 supplements instead of the B-Complex. I was freaking out because my piss was still clear. My girlfriend has some pre-natal vitamins. I remember her telling me that it turned her pee neon green so I crushed them up and took them. As soon as my piss turned color I stopped myself mid stream and ran to the clinic about 15 minutes from my house. When I got there I had to wait another 10 minutes.

    I was never told that I passed the Drug test so I was nervous for about two weeks but then I started my new contract and now i'm $90/hr richer. Thank you to this forum and to N2!!! He should really get a donation page up or something!!
  17. sanfransub

    sanfransub New Member

    Joined SubClub in SF, CA

    Given how helpful this site has been to me during this process, I just wanted to share my experience for others.

    Testing Site: Quest Labs near San Francisco
    Purpose: Pre-employment, unobserved
    Urine: male child from that morning
    Use: none x 5 years, stopped two weeks prior after use of about 5 joints/week for 2 months. Appeared to still be positive on home drug test taken that morning.

    I had a physical scheduled immediately afterward and wanted to be ultra prepared so I carried two 2-ounce bottles under each breast and one in the vaginal cavity. I had done multiple test runs and knew if I started with urine at 96-98 degrees, I could keep it at that temp internally forever and under my breasts would run about two degrees lower. I also knew if I started with cold urine, I could warm them to body temp in about 1.5 hours.

    Like everyone, I was as nervous as imaginable. This Quest was definitely more closely monitored, cleaner and less crowded than some seem to be. I arrived about 11am and was seen in less than 10 minutes. For unclear reasons, I had also drank a lot (I guess I thought about dilution as a backup, but there was no way I was doing that anyway so it was silly). This meant I desperately had to pee by the time I was called, but did not want to show it. The tester briefly explained the procedure. Drew a line to 45ml, then erased it and said she needed 60ml. She was nice, but very serious and professional. She had me place my belongings in a lock box INSIDE the bathroom (which had a full wooden door, extended to floor) and gave me the key. She asked if I had anything in my jacket, I replied no, and she just told me to hang it up INSIDE the bathroom. Not great logic on their part IMO, but oh well. She told me not to flush or run water. As she was about to close the door, I asked if I was allowed to lock it and she said yes though I believe she had actually already locked it herself with the little button.

    Now the hard part. I sat down and had to pee a little immediately. Not ideal since I wanted that sound to mask any I might make, but I could NOT wait. Then I removed the internal bottle, knowing it was a bit warmer, poured it into the cup and finished peeing. I was so nervous I forgot to check if the toilet water was blue or what color my own urine was. I also forgot to check the temp strip on the cup though am sure that was okay. I placed the cup on the back of the toilet (for some reason I was really nervous about where I was going to place the cup as that is rarely addressed), but the floor was my backup. I reinserted the empty bottle and got up. I definitely made some weird noises when the sub urine glugged out and when I tapped the lid trying to put it back on, but she did not seem to hear.

    Still shaking like a leaf, I immediately headed outside and handed the cup to the tester. The tester was definitely listening closely and standing RIGHT outside my door when I exited. I believe she was more concerned about me opening the lockbox though. She immediately dumped out half the urine, then split the rest of the sample into two vials. I acted a bit grossed out and asked if I could wash my hands and she was fine with that though said she needed to turn the water on first. I was glad to have a momentary distraction. She had me retrieve my belongings, sign the bottles and a form, then gave me the little strip from the bottom of the paper. She said results would be available in 24 hours for my employer. I was able to return 48 hours later and did see a copy of my results for the SAP 5/50 which included opiates, PCP, amphetamines, cocaine, and THC. It was all negative!

    I hope this helps some women, especially, regarding how to sub. Under breasts is fine, but internal is safer on temp in my opinion. Also, I found the energy power shot drinks at drugstore checkouts to be the easiest to insert internally. Many 2 ounce bottles were too long, but this was wider and that was manageable.

    Good luck to all!
  18. Toastxx3

    Toastxx3 New Member

    Hey guys,

    Ok so this is my first time subbing and I'm curious about the possibility of pulling this off. My piss test is tomorrow and I got the piss yesterday. Didn't know I had to fridge it so I put it in the refrigerator 2 to 3 hours later. The piss is in my girlfriends fridge. I went there earlier with my moms small mouth cleanser bottle. Has waterproof lid. Made of plastic, I filled the bottle and got in the car to go home. Once I got home I put the container in my windosil. It was about 50 but temp is supposed to drop overnight. So will it stay cold enough to be good?

    Also, I intend to carry it duct taped to my thigh all day in school tomorrow. Test is around 230 to 3 in the afternoon. Please reply as soon as possible this is urgent.
  19. Volklrider51

    Volklrider51 New Member

    Hello everyone, I have a physical and drug screen today at 11am for a good welding job. Im going to be using my buddies clean urine I got last night. This will be the first time that I sub for a urine test. Pretty nervous, but w/e. I'm hoping I can get away with it, and start work Oct 1st. I'll Deffiently post how it went later today, and how I did it. I don't wanna have it under my sack just incase physical is first. Cause my job requires a hernia test. So they will be grabbing my junk. Not gonna fail cause he find the bottle. Well wish me lucky heading out te door now!!
  20. Volklrider51

    Volklrider51 New Member

    WOOOOOPPPPPIIIIEEEE!!!! I past my drug test! Im the Newest member of the sub club!! Just left the hospital for my Pre-Employment drug screen and physical and everything went perfect.. Here's exactly how I proceeded. I got some clean urine last night from my buddy who doesn't use. I threw it in the fridge until 9am this Morning. I then put the urine in my old QF bottle, and got the temp exactly to 100 degrees. I the rubber banded my hand warmer on the side of the bottle without the temp strip. I made a little compartment in my thermal jeans. The thermal jeans have a liner inside then te jeans on the outside. Inbetween them is where I kept it. Just put a 3 in slit on the inside of jeans. then I took a shoe lace and tied it to a Crown Royal bag, thing I let hang down by my knee inbetween the thermal lining and the actual jean part. I tied the other part of the shoe lace around the rivet that holds the watch pocket in place. So all I had to do was reach in the slit and pull up on the shoe lace to access the bag with the urine. I did all this just incase I had to do the physical part first. And I didn't want the doctor to see it. Which he woulda have if I put it in my old spot, which was under my nuts. So at the last minute I just made the compartment out of my jeans last night. Thank god I did. Or else I would been busted. So all in all everything went great. From 9am till 11am the bottle read exactly 98 degrees. Any questions about anything I may of not elaborated on. Just ask. Thanks to all the monitors an the people thT helped me calm the F down. Ha. Thanks again. Hopefully everything went good ToastXX3. Post your results..

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