Andrew87

As much as I may not like liberals - as long as your reason for being one is not superficial (as is with many who lean left), I offer no criticism whatsoever.

I see it more as damage control. To withdraw from Iraq prematurely would only ensure a later full-scale invasion at some point down the road when the entire region erupts into a giant civil war. It's our choice - deal with it now, once and for all, or put it off until it blows up in our faces.

The way it should be...

I once saw some internet chain-letter listing "seven reasons why I am a conservative," and one of the reasons was: 'I don't care if the government doesn't help me, in fact, I would be perfectly content if the government forgot that I even existed.'

I must say that I agree wholeheartedly.



I would elaborate on how much of an exaggerated, brazenly false statement this is, but I imagine it would be futile for me to do so.

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SacredJellybean

Well gee, how tactful of you. I don't go around saying that a majority of conservative people are selfish, heartless, power-hungry, money-grubbing ghouls. Instead, I listen to their argument and respect it, and I would expect the same respect from them. To borrow something you said,

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"Every age has its peculiar folly and if Charles Mackay, the author of the 19th century classic, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds were alive today he would surely see 'cannabinophobia' as a popular delusion along with the 'tulipmania' and 'witch hunts' of earlier ages. ... I also believe that future historians will look at this epoch and recognize it as another instance of the 'madness of crowds.'"
~Dr. Lester Grinspoon

Andrew87

In my experience, many people with liberal ideologies tend to have unsubstantiated reasons for believing such - we went through precisely this in another thread. Based on drakester's responses, s/he seemed to me like one of these people.

Are there well read, highly intelligent liberals out there? You bet, and they are the only ones I care to debate with. Persons whom I consider 'superficial liberals' will turn any seemingly intelligent debate into a pissing contest rather quickly, which is why I don't bother with them. However, the exact same thing can be said for narrow-minded conservatives.

In short, what I should have said is: In my experience, many who lean left tend to be superficial. I apologize for that.

dedbr

So, let me ask this....Hillary says she is going all the way to the convention. Should she drop out? Should she keep going?

Is this the Obama thread? No, I got it right this time......This is the Hilly thread.......


Some Where In Ded Land.......................................

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Passage

She should give up politics.....forever.

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drakester

Well, today I discussed with my boyfriend the ideological differences between Democrats and Republicans. Now, I have spoken with many Republicans in the past, because where I used to work, there was nothing but Republicans. I was the only Democrat in the office, as far as I knew, besides maybe some closet Democrats, who never really came out and told me how they voted. I often listened to what they said, and began to understand their philosophy.

Democrats believe in the power of government to do positive things, such as provide health care to all citizens. Their faith in government is grounded in the fact that everyone has the vote and can choose the candidate they prefer. Democrats accept capitalism, but feel that limits should be imposed by government to prevent excesses. Democrats are more sympathetic to minorities, the poor, the sick and the disabled. They are also very receptive to scientific ideas. Stem-cell research, evolution, and global warming are not problems on the Democratic side of the aisle.

Republicans want less government, and believe government is the cause of much of the irritations in their life, such as taxes, gun laws, what they view as interference with their religion (think private school vouchers, home schooling) and protection of minorities. Republicans don't want government to help others, because they feel that doing so would cost them in taxes. They would prefer that charity be left to the church. Republicans believe capitalism is almost perfect. They tend to be social darwinists with a "sink or swim" attitude toward the poor and minorities. (Is this fair?) Material prosperity is closely associated with morality and the work ethic. Republicans are more receptive to right-wing religion, which has fully embraced capitalism. In the Republican mind, church charities can provide all the programs that government might otherwise provide. Unspoken among Republican elites is that right-wing religion is practically the only thing keeping the poor voting Republican. Issues such as abortion, drugs and gays are flogged regularly to appease the religious right contingent. The real bread and butter of the Republican party is gimmes to the business sector.

Is this fair, do you think?

troublemaker_42

I think thats a gross oversimplification, to be honest. Notice you didn't mention any negatives whatsoever about being a Democrat, while at the same time appearing to crucify the republicans? Theres positives and negatives to both parties, but you'd be hard pressed to come to such a conclusion if your post was the sole source of information. Each party has its dark side and its skeletons in the closet.Each party also has some ideas i agree with. I don't think its the government's job to take care of people unwilling to help themselves. I'm not against aide to those who actually need it, but govt assistance is often abused Democrats, almost without fail, are in favor of stricter gun control laws, and tend to shift the responsibilities away from the individual. I see nothing wrong with being expected to make your own way in this world. I don't think its the govt's responsibility to hold my hand through life, nor is there anything wrong with being directly responsible for your actions. Life isn't always fair, and it shouldn't be the governments role to level the playing field. That being said, I am, not affiliated with either major party. Neither one completely supports my viewpoints, and both have policies and ideas I find both appealing and appalling. I just don't think its fair (a subject you seem to believe is important by your repeated use of the phrase "is this fair?" when describing Republicans) to demonize one party and never touch on the bad side of the other when trying to vive people a description of the two major political parties.

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If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

drakester

Well, what exactly in my Republican description was unfair? Or was the language used objectionable? Tell me exactly where I failed. My Republican friend @ work gave me a copy of Ann Coulter's book, "Treason!" in which every page rails against the "godless liberals" and basically equates liberalism with treason and communism. This is quite a popular book among the conservative Republicans, so I definitely think they've done their share, where demonizing is concerned. I told him I thought the book was just a little bit biased, only preaching to the choir and highly unlikely to make any converts among liberals or even moderates, since it takes an insulting tone towards liberals. He responded that I wasn't a liberal, but a conservative. Maybe because of my haircut? LOL. But I think he personally liked me, and could not reconcile his warm feelings with his rigid stereotype of the godless liberal.


Have you watched "Hillary: The Movie" yet? I did. Ann Coulter pops up in there too. No rest for the wicked. ;-) The movie did not persuade me into thinking ill of Hillary.

troublemaker_42

OMG....saying all Republicans are like Ann Coulter is like saying all Muslims are like Bin laden. Theres extremes in any demographic.

Andrew87

I am a conservative and even I don't like Ann Coulter. She is an outspoken, radical nutcase who does nothing but undermine the causes she claims to believe in with her condescending attitude.


Honestly, this statement told me all I needed to know. The fact that you did not already know the difference only finalizes my prior hypothesis.

Correct...

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that (unless we are directly violating the rights of others) we expect the government to keep their noses out of our business. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is one of the basic principles this country was founded upon.



Hardly. We simply believe that one person's successes should not be required to pay for another's failures.


I'm not even going to bother continuing because of how blatantly biased your assessment was.

Some liberal politicians have some excellent ideas and are quite politically intelligent - while others are nothing more than the leftist equivalents to Ann Coulter.