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SacredJellybean

Obama on Wright. He addresses the question of "why have you listened to this preacher for so long if you disagree with his racist attitudes?" around 9 minutes in.

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"Every age has its peculiar folly and if Charles Mackay, the author of the 19th century classic, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds were alive today he would surely see 'cannabinophobia' as a popular delusion along with the 'tulipmania' and 'witch hunts' of earlier ages. ... I also believe that future historians will look at this epoch and recognize it as another instance of the 'madness of crowds.'"
~Dr. Lester Grinspoon

 

troublemaker_42

I was taught when I see something I see as an injustice, to step up, to speak out, to bring attention to it, so that it could be changed.....Obama, a possible future leader of our country, stood silently by and allowed the comments to continue, right up until the Reverand's inflamatory remarks and ideology hit the media. I don't want a leader who simply lets things like that slide. If he cannot stand up to a leader of his own church, how can he speak up against other world leaders when it comes time? Who is to say he won't overlook the injustices of others? When someone like Reverand Wright repeatedly states " God Damn America" when you are a possiblya future leader of such a country and you do nothing, what message does that send? That you agrtee America is damned and hopeless? That you're too cowardly to stand up for what you believe in? I've yet to hear a satisfactory response on why he chose to overlook all of this, right up until his Reverand's history became more well known. Obama claims the guy is like family, that he officated his wedding, and that he baptised his children. If he was this close to him, why didn't he stand up to his views until they became the center of media controversy.

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Remember you're a wreck, an accident
forget the freak, you're just nature
Keep the gun oiled and the temple clean
shit, snort and blaspheme
Let the heads cool and the engine run
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is just everything we've done..."Omega" by StoneSour

www.sportsmenforObama.org

SacredJellybean

Well, what good would it have been for Obama to speak out against Wright? He can either A) alienate a friend, mentor, and spiritual leader by speaking out against a few racist sermons he's made, with little pay-off, or B) ignore the sermons. Again, the fact that the severity of these racist notions could be small, and therefore the social injustice you bring up be negligible, makes me think Obama should be given the benefit of the doubt. You were talking about Obama's lack-of-loyalty before, but couldn't it be taken as a sign of loyalty if he turned a blind eye? The two of them have different philosophies, and they probably agree to disagree on certain subjects. Obama has said that Wright sees things in the context of race, whereas he sees things in the context of social justice.

Honestly, I'm more pissed off at Obama waffling about marijuana policy reform.

There's a saying that goes, "choose your battles wisely." As a diplomatic person in general, if Obama saw no gain in speaking out against Wright's sentiment, why bother? It's different with world leaders, because he won't have known them for years and gone through the same things. The relationships would be entirely different.

Saying "God Damn America" is, I suppose, not the most tactful way to criticize our country and its policies, but do you absolutely require a candidate to speak out against anyone criticizing our country? Obama probably even agrees with Wright in that there is a blowback to interfering with foreign affairs. I don't see his response or lack thereof as either cowardly or an indicator that he believes America is hopeless. I think I'd prefer someone under-patriotic than someone over-patriotic. Bill Maher once said, "A true patriot criticizes his country." If you want the best for our country, you'll acknowledge that we do some things wrong, and we have to try our best to fix our mistakes.

Viper420

A. What kind of mentor or spiritual leader spouts racial hatreds?
B. Ignore it? Oh thats a good one. I guess hate speech is perfectly okay as long as your preacher, mentor and friend is putting it out.

If he had chosen his battles wisely, he wouldn't be in this situation now.

Thats an understatement but I do like your ability to accept totally unacceptable behavior from a religious (?) person such as Rev. Wright.

On the contrary, it IS either cowardly or he accepts what the preacher is saying.

SacredJellybean

Again, is it hate speech or crazy conspiracy theories? I don't think Wright considers himself racist, nor his sermons hate speech, and he's certainly said that he isn't separatist.

What gain is there in speaking out against Wright when there were only a few questionable sermons?

How dare anyone exercise their free speech and criticize America! This is best god damn country in the world!

Totally unacceptable behavior? Please.

You have an interesting view of the world. How has histrionic black-and-white thinking worked for you up until this point? I'm sure it makes everything easier to sort out.

 

Freedom_User

Proof that Bush does not like black people. He must be racist. Impeach Bush NOW!

troublemaker_42

I think its fairly useless comparing a Kanye West comment to attending a church with a radical revererand for 20 years. In fact, I fail to see any connection whatsoever. Thanks for playing, please try again

Freedom_User

Yeah, only trying to throw some humor into the thread. Jeez, smoke a bowl...

Viper420

Of course he doesn't consider himself a racist....neither did Hitler. BTW...did you EVEN listen to his speeches? Of course they were hate speeches.

There were only a few RECORDED sermons. And if there was only one sermon, is that still acceptable? MY GOD, you're blinders are on tight.

Oh, Rev. Wright or she we call him Rev. Wrong, has all the right in the world to say whatever he wants on his pulpit. But Barak is asking to be the leader of that country that the preacher is hating on, then he has a responsibility to get up and challenge the preacher. His silence is acceptence.

I do know the difference between right and wrong. Do you?

SacredJellybean

Seriously, where are you getting this Hitler thing from? Are you always this hysterical? Wright accuses rich white elite guys for manufacturing drugs and AIDS to keep down the black man. Is this racist and stupid? Yes. Is this anywhere near as bad as organizing a group of people together to persecute another group of people based on their race/religion, systematically torturing and murdering them? If you say yes, your name might be Viper and you might have trouble distinguishing between shades of gray.

I want to adopt that mindset for one day and see how interesting things get. Short-changed at the supermarket? The clerk is obviously a money-grubbing corrupt prick who's comparable to Enron executives. Woman bumps into me at the street? Obvious attempt of assault and she needs to be put into a chokehold on the ground until she regains her senses.

If you read my post, you'd know I listened to them and gave you an opinion as to why they aren't necessarily hate speech. To me, hate speech is perpetuating the idea that someone should be treated as inferior based on race or something else that makes them different. Let me explain this again, and hope that you'll actually read it this time: WRIGHT. DIDN'T. SAY. THAT. WHITE. PEOPLE. ARE. INFERIOR. He SAID that a SUBSET, a MINORITY of elite white people are keeping down the black population. Do you need me to draw you a graph or a Venn diagram or something? I don't know how I can make this more clear. YES, his sentiment has racist undertones. I've said that at least 5 times by now. NO, it doesn't necessarily make it hate speech.

But I guess given the choice between living in Nazi germany as a Jew and living in America under a President whose preacher has a few racist sentiments, you'd be torn.

If you can prove to me that sermons containing this same amount of racist sentiment were delivered on a regular basis, which nothing I've seen seems to indicate, I will concede. Can you do that for me? Can you also explain to me how it's impossible for Obama to take the good from Wright's racially-based view on things, and apply it to his own social-justice-based view on things? I want to hear this.

I love puns! How about Rev. Blight? No? How about Rev. Shi'ite? I mean hell, the guy already obviously hates America with all his angry little heart, he's probably a radical Muslim too amirite brah?

So a few criticisms of America means Wright hates America and all it encompasses? And Barack does by extension for not publicly condemning the speeches of this man earlier? Like I said, you have a very interesting myopic, binary view of things. I only wish it were so simple as a choice between two extremes.

Silence? He's already denounced those beliefs of Wright. Not until it was brought up by the media, of course. So that unequivocally means that it was all in the name of political opportunism (something entirely unprecedented in presidential campaigns!), right? What a terrible person Barack Obama is!

Also, I reiterate, no matter what Obama did in response to this, people like you would be bitching about it.

Yup, pretty sure I got a good grasp. Do you know the difference between incredibly and intolerably wrong, and tolerably wrong? Do you know the difference between your knowledge of Wright and Barack's knowledge/relationship with Wright? You've seen a few controversial clips. Obama has known the man for 20 years and his first impression wasn't a sensationalist glimpse into a few racist sermons. Where does this urgency to stand up and shout out from the mountain tops come from? Why is it that Obama unquestionably should have made statements about A FEW of this man's opinions, in contrast to the many other beliefs of theirs that line up, when the idea of disagreements between the two men probably hadn't even been PROMPTED before?

Keep spinning your wheels, but I'm still not impressed. Here we have a topic about Obama and his past marijuana usage. Obama has obviously waffled on the issue of marijuana policy reform, calling his integrity into question. This is something LEGITIMATE you could be bitching about. Instead, you derail the topic for something weak like this? What's wrong with you?