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Lit_Match

Little video I came across on another forum. Of course, things like this are always prepackaged to give you the perspective the producer wanted, so a grain or two of salt may be needed.

Aside from what may not be as factual as it will be presented, those sections that are inherently true down right scare me. For example, should a man that refuses to honor the pledge of allegiance and star spangled banner by simply placing his hand over his heart really deserve to be the President this country? Also the fact that he refuses to wear a pin on his suit that has the flag on it just disturbs me. Is our country not good enough for him?

LiveLeak.com - The REAL Obama

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Doc Mitch

these things are too superficial to me. also, we didnt get to hear why he refuses to wear the pin. the video just cuts off right when he goes to explain it.

SacredJellybean

Oh brother, not this shit again. If this is the worst they have on Obama, all I can do is laugh. There are much worst things about Clinton and McCain we could be discussing, and hell, even worse things about Obama, but oh no, let's focus on this and how he might be unpatriotic because he won't wear a fucking lapel pin or put his hand over his heart.

If you want to waste your time worrying about crap like this, be my guest. No offense, but it's more telling of your character than Obama's.

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Sec

Obama stops wearing flag pin - Barack Obama News - MSNBC.com

He refuses to wear a pin because the pin has become a substitute for patriotism???

This is absurd. That is like saying that those who fly the flag outside their homes aren't really patriotic.

How is a pin a substitute? It is an outward sign of an internal feeling.

Of course this isn't the only reason to vote or not vote for a candidate. Of course others have said and done things that bother me. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss these "little" things and add up everything when making our decisions.

If the President of the United States doesn't feel it necessary to show his patriotism by wearing a little lapel pin, when and where does he feel it is necessary? Will he show his patriotism to the United States when meeting with terrorist leaders? If he won't show it to the American People, why would he show patriotism to people who hate America?

Lit Match is right that there are other topics brought up that are disturbing, to say the least.

True, not the most important thing in the world, but every drop adds weight to the bucket.

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SacredJellybean

I could see some other issues with Obama disturbing people, but when I first heard this on Fox News, I literally laughed and shook my head. I figured it was just a silly Fox News thing (they aren't the most objective source, obviously); it honestly surprises me that people are taking it seriously. Attacking someone for not being patriotic enough to me is just silly, almost scary. Some of us (I don't mean here at marijuana.com) have even gotten under almost a patriotic mob-like mentality, rallying together against terrorists. Funny how history repeats itself - though it's admittedly nowhere near as bad as Joseph McCarthy and anti-communist sentiment of the 50s.

Post 9/11, flag companies were ecstatic, raking in all the cash from people who were now eager to show how patriotic they are and how much they love their country and how we would unite against those evil terrorists! It's a ballsy move to point out that showing your patriotism through a flag lapel is not nearly as powerful as giving your ideas on how to change the nation (we're still waiting for those, apparently ).

Joking aside - sorry, Lit, I just think this patriotic stuff is weak.

Also, how is posting this is any different from you saying:

"Little something I came across on another forum. Of course, things like this are always prepackaged to give you the perspective the author wanted, so a grain or two of salt may be needed."

"Aside from what may not be as factual as it will be presented, those sections that are inherently true down right scare me. For example, is a man that smokes marijuana really capable of taking care of himself and carrying himself in public around those who are sober, and especially children? That marijuana causes the same changes in the brain as other drugs do really disturbs me."

 

Sec

I do not agree with the ideal of allowing illegal aliens to receive SS benefits. That is in the bio of Obama. There are other issues I don't agree with Obama as well. Doesn't mean I don't like him as a candidate as a whole, it just means that I want to discuss his qualifications, opinions and track record a little more in depth. If that involves something you don't feel is important, well, I can't do much about that.

That being said, there are issues that I don't agree with concerning the other candidates, but this thread is about Barak Obama, not the other candidates.

What is important to some might not be important or significant to others. To say "This issue is petty and unimportant" might be true for you, but this issue might just be a deciding factor for others.
How can anyone say what should or should not be important to another person? Does the fact that some people want to examine every aspect of a candidates life before voting seem like a bad character trait to you?

I do agree that some things have gotten out of hand, like those magnetic ribbons of every color and pattern imaginable standing for every cause one can think up on the backs of minivans. However, I just can't see where showing patriotism is overused and abused.

SacredJellybean

If they're in the process of becoming citizens, I don't see a problem with this. But this thread is about Obama being unpatriotic, so I guess I shouldn't expand much on it, but I'd like to quickly point out that all candidates agree with this.

[edit] I just read that McCain flip-flopped on this. Nevermind.

True.

It seems to me more like an engagement in propaganda than legitimate debate. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to do it, I'm saying I don't understand the fascination.

Conversely, I just don't see how not showing patriotism in a small way justifies questioning the character of a candidate.

Sec

I never said he was unpatriotic, or questioned his character, only that his stating that the flag (lapel pin) is a substitute for patriotism seems like a lack of respect for the flag. That is only multiplied by him not holding his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. What message was he trying to convey there? I don't doubt that he is patriotic, he is serving the American Public as a Senator. He must be loyal to the United States to do that. (At least I must believe that members of congress are loyal to the United States).

I just don't understand his logic. I get the feeling that he is trying to show his opposition to the war by not waving the flag as so many war supporters do. This may or may not be true, but it is my take on the matter.

As a person, I believe he has run his campaign cleaner than any other candidate. He has not shown as much pettiness as the other candidates have done, and I have not heard any blatent 'mis-speaks' as was done in the Clinton campaign (the sniper fire debacle). I'm not saying he is a bad guy, I just cannot understand why the Commander in Chief hopeful is even allowing this to become an issue. Show respect to the flag, and this issue would never have come up.

sterbo

How sad and how very true.

Obama -
“My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart," ....... You show your patriotism by being true to our values and ideals. That’s what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals.”

Thats not what he's saying. He's shining a light on something many of us know all too well, that the average person is far more interested in the trappings of some visual icon than they are in doing the hard work to really maintain what it represents -

Obama -
"You show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who serve."

To some yes. To all to many it's given no more thought than putting on their shoes in the morning...


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Doc Mitch

i can easily relate the whole pin on the lapel thing to people going to church. some people do it because they think it makes them more of a christian. there are also some people that refuse to go to church because they think its the least religious thing you can do.

its all the same concept.