Higher Logic

Federal authorities struggling to deal with the increased number of cross-border tunnels connecting Mexico to the US
April 19, 2004 | All Things Considered, NPR | @ 9:00-10:00 PM

MELISSA BLOCK, host:

Smugglers fed up with tighter restrictions along the US-Mexico border are increasingly going underground. They're digging elaborate tunnels in attempts to move illegal drugs and immigrants into the United States. Border agents used to find about one such passageway a year, on average, but since the 9/11 terror attacks, they've found more than 10. Investigators say there could be many more, and they're worried about what that could mean for national security. NPR's Carrie Kahn reports.

CARRIE KAHN reporting:

Last week, half a dozen federal agents stood under the hot desert sun in front of the border fence separating Mexicali, Mexico, and Calexico, California.

Unidentified Man: Hey, Bill, let's shine some light down there. Let's pull that one and see if there's any water at the bottom.

KAHN: They were watching a contractor drill probes 25 feet down directly into what they thought was an underground tunnel. Geophysicists had recently scanned a two-mile swath of the border with radar and had detected an anomaly. They say they saw a horizontal space in the ground running directly under the border fence and ending just beyond an apartment complex on the US side.

Mr. MIKE TURNER (Director, Immigration Customs & Enforcement Agency): The anomaly that we see runs laterally across the field here.

KAHN: Mike Turner is the director of the Immigration Customs & Enforcement Agency for San Diego. He says the search for cross-border tunnels has become more urgent. He says if smugglers can bring in drugs or illegal immigrants through a tunnel, what would stop them from bringing in a terrorist or a dirty bomb?

[Red: That kind of thinking is scary, because eventually anything and everything is a vehicle for terrorism. Planes, trains, buses, cars, trucks, eventually walking down the street. But no one will complain, or question, or ask why, instead they'll comply until it's too late to say anything.]

Mr. TURNER: This is the first attempt that we're making here to proactively find those things out. If there is a tunnel down there, we will find it today as opposed to waiting for somebody to drive over it and fall into it.

KAHN: That's pretty much the way two other tunnels in Calexico were discovered. Late last year, a Border Patrol car fell into a sink hole created by an unstable tunnel. One month later, a city crew excavating sewer pipes tapped right into one. And two years ago in San Diego, a tunnel to Tijuana was found by a Border Patrol agent with a keen sense of smell.

Mr. ANGEL SANTA ANA (Senior Border Patrol Agent): There was a strong odor of marijuana coming from this moving van.

[Red: Because anyone who touches marijuana is a terrorist, or at least a supporter of terrorism.]

KAHN: Senior Border Patrol agent Angel Santa Ana(ph) stands in one of the last stalls in a public parking lot in front of the border fence in San Diego. Tourists park their cars here and take the short walk into Tijuana for day trips. Santa Ana says when the agent approached the moving van, one suspect started running. Another was seen bolting from underneath the auto.

Mr. SANTA ANA: We opened the vehicle and we found the 3,300 pounds. And at the bottom, on the floor of the van, or the moving van, there was a trapdoor. So this is where this second individual was coming from.

KAHN: Agents concluded that the traffickers were smuggling the marijuana through a tunnel. They say the smugglers would back their converted van into the last parking stall so the trapdoor would open right next to a storm drain. That's where an accomplice was waiting with the contraband. Once he delivered it, the accomplice would crawl back into the tunnel, complete with lighting, ventilation and a small rail system. The other end opened up into the living room of an apartment building in Tijuana.

(Soundbite of boy skateboarding)

In front of that Tijuana apartment, a boy skateboards off the sidewalk. A city patrol car sits in front of the house with the door loosely taped shut. A neighbor, Vicente Vasquez(ph), says the people in the house told everyone they sold terra-cotta pottery, so no one thought much about the truckloads of excavated dirt leaving the residence.

Mr. VICENTE VASQUEZ: (Spanish spoken)

KAHN: He says, `Who really knows how long the tunnel had been there? Two years? Who knows?'

Michael S. Vigil is a special agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration in San Diego. He won't comment much about the investigation into the tunnels, which is ongoing, but he says the increasing trend is disturbing.

Mr. MICHAEL S. VIGIL (Special Agent, Drug Enforcement Administration): We really have to move forward in terms of developing, you know, the technology that would be extremely accurate in terms of pinpointing a lot of these tunnels.

KAHN: For the contractor in Calexico, the technology didn't seem to pinpoint a tunnel; the probes appeared to hit some sort of space filled with water. But officials insist the exercise was worthwhile. Calexico's chief of police, Mario Sanchez, says he wishes the feds had started looking sooner.

Chief MARIO SANCHEZ (Calexico Police): I think they could have done it before, they should have done it before, because, you know, they found one. And usually, when you have one, you have other ones.

KAHN: Immigration and drug experts agree. They say there could be as many as a hundred tunnels along the US-Mexico border. Carrie Kahn, NPR News, Los Angeles.

(Soundbite of music)

ROBERT SIEGEL (Host): You're listening to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News.

[Red: This article merely hinted at illegal immigration and the concerns for terrorism, but I found the entire transcript to be nothing more than a marijuana issue. It feels like they simply added terrorism concerns in there to relate to current issues, just like they are doing with Canada. They act like people digging tunnels is some crazy new idea, yet what do you expect with prohibition? Hell even the slaves were transported from the South to the North via tunnel systems, and all kinds of crazy ideas were used to smuggle alcohol during its prohibition era.]

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TurbulentHigh

Yes, there is no way to stop terrorism without stripping us of our personal liberties. That is the nature of the beast, an enemy who strikes without warning and plays the part of a normal citizen. So how would you stop someone who pretends to be a citizen? Strip the citizens of their rights. It is incredible to me that people buy in to this sort of thing.

- TH421

[quote=Red]Federal authorities struggling to deal with the increased number of cross-border tunnels connecting Mexico to the US
April 19, 2004 | All Things Considered, NPR | @ 9:00-10:00 PM

KAHN: Mike Turner is the director of the Immigration Customs & Enforcement Agency for San Diego. He says the search for cross-border tunnels has become more urgent. He says if smugglers can bring in drugs or illegal immigrants through a tunnel, what would stop them from bringing in a terrorist or a dirty bomb?

[Red: That kind of thinking is scary, because eventually anything and everything is a vehicle for terrorism. Planes, trains, buses, cars, trucks, eventually walking down the street. But no one will complain, or question, or ask why, instead they'll comply until it's too late to say anything.]

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Niteshift

[Red: Because anyone who touches marijuana is a terrorist, or at least a supporter of terrorism.]

I'm sorry, I just don't see that in the article. I see they discovered it because a Border Patrol agent smelled pot, but that's the only pot link I see.

Is it possible to set aside your bias against everything the DEA says or does for 1 minute and realize that tunnels like that DO present a threat from more than illegal farm workers and some pot?

If you can see the threat, then why try to make this issue into a reason to yell about prohibition?

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Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

Higher Logic

I don't expect you to see the connection. With cannabis being the most widely used illicit substance the DEA will never see an unbiased view from me. They stand for everything I do not. Their entire job depends on the legality of drugs, as does a portion of your job I imagine.

Do tunnels pose some major imminent threat for terrorists to bring bombs to the US Not a chance in hell. Why not buy a private plane and just fly into the US? Those tunnels are used for two things: illegal immigrants and smuggling drugs, with the latter being the main use.

Niteshift

With cannabis being the most widely used illicit substance the DEA will never see an unbiased view from me.

But you are confusing "widely used" with "primary focus". Pot is most definately not the primary focus of the DEA.

Their entire job depends on the legality of drugs, as does a portion of your job I imagine.

I don't know why you imagine that. I've stated time and time again that if pot were legalized tomorrow, my job would barely change at all. Further, I've explained how legalizing pot would probably amount to no more than 100 cops out of 740,000 losing a job.

But you simply ignore that and keep "imagining" things. Why do you ignore it?

Do tunnels pose some major imminent threat for terrorists to bring bombs to the US Not a chance in hell.

How can you say "not a chance in hell?" Do you have any idea how many illegal immigrants from countries OTHER THAN MEXICO come across that porus border?

Why not buy a private plane and just fly into the US? Those tunnels are used for two things: illegal immigrants and smuggling drugs, with the latter being the main use.

Do you see the contradiction in what you just said? On one hand, you say it would be easy to just buy a plane and fly into the US. If that were the easiest, most secure way, why would those tunnels be needed to smuggle drugs? Wouldn't it be easier to fly in? I mean you just stated how simple it would be.

You are ignoring many factors about flying in, including the simple fact that flights of any kind are incredibly easy to track, often from the point of origin.

But when you say "I don't expect you to see the connection.", you imply that I'm not able to see it. I guess I should look at this the same way........ I shouldn't expect you to see the connection either.

Higher Logic

Come on, man. Think about it. If you were going to put your focus on something, would it be a drug that hardly no one uses, or something everyone uses? When's the last time you heard about Operation Shroomdown?

For some odd reason, I have a real hard time seeing how the legalization of cannabis would not effect you in the slightest.

Right, we should just build a wall 30' tall and 20' thick between Mexico and the US, heck, let's just build one between Canada too, that'll keep 'dem sums of *****es outta our here dam land...

Maybe you forget what kinds of people are smuggling these drugs? Last time I checked 'ole Lupez didn't have $25M to throw down on a plane and pilot. A highly organized terrorist group should have no problem coming up with an idea besides building tunnels. I could sit around for a couple of hours and think of hundreds of ways to bring stuff into this country, or ways to blow up something, or how to kill someone, the possibilities are endless.

Apparently as long as you have over 80 minutes to fly aronud in the air, you can do just about anything nowadays...

We're just two different sides of the same stone man

Niteshift

Come on, man. Think about it. If you were going to put your focus on something, would it be a drug that hardly no one uses, or something everyone uses?

Red, I've been dealing with the DEA for years. I've attended their training, intelligence meeting and summits. I've gone with them on warrants and done follow up work with them.

I can say, without any doubt in my mind whatsoever, that cocaine is their #1 priority. Absolutely, without a doubt. (Hopefully the moderator gods will forgive me for having to mention a specific off-topic substance)

I've tried to turn pot cases over to them. I've damn near BEGGED them to take a case. They aren't interested unless I have several hundred pounds and even then it's a toss-up. But they'll snap up 10 pounds of coke in a hurry.

I believe a lot of that has to do with the violence associated more with cocaine trafficking than pot. And, I'd like to think that they do recognize some of the differences between a relatively benign drug with a low probability of addiction compared to other drugs.

For some odd reason, I have a real hard time seeing how the legalization of cannabis would not effect you in the slightest.

Because you are under the mistaken impression that is is such a major priority to all cops.

There were less than 700,000 arrests for mj in 2002. There are 740,000 cops in the US. And for every cop that makes 5 arrests in a year, that's even more than have nothing to do with it.

I'd say that if I answer 100 calls in a week, less than 5 of them will be pot related. Is less than 5% really a huge deal? Even working in drug interdiction, my job wouldn't change because of pot being legalized. There are still plenty of other drugs to deal with.

Simply put, pot isn't as important to law enforcement as you think it is.

Right, we should just build a wall 30' tall and 20' thick between Mexico and the US, heck, let's just build one between Canada too, that'll keep 'dem sums of *****es outta our here dam land...

Huh?

Maybe you forget what kinds of people are smuggling these drugs? Last time I checked 'ole Lupez didn't have $25M to throw down on a plane and pilot. A highly organized terrorist group should have no problem coming up with an idea besides building tunnels. .

Ole Lupez is probably not working for himself either. He's working for someone who DOES have that kind of money.

And I'm not sure what kind of plane you think you need, but $25 million for a plane and pilot is a LOT of money. I mean damn, you can by a freakin used Gulfstream for HALF that money, and that's a top-tier, long range jet.

I could sit around for a couple of hours and think of hundreds of ways to bring stuff into this country, or ways to blow up something, or how to kill someone, the possibilities are endless

And one of those possibilities is a tunnel.

There are other things as well. Hell, stolen SUV's are a HUGE black market item in Central and South America. Why risk a nosy Customs agent catching you if you could drive it under the border.

Let's not forget the guy who was bringing explosives across the Canadian border for New Years 2000. In a car, not some airplane.

Even historically speaking...........a lot of German agents in both WW1 and WW2 came in via Mexico. Hell, there was even an attempt in WW1 to enlist the aid of Mexico in occupying the US if they entered the war.

Higher Logic

Just one question before I come back to this (busy making hash right now). Do you know how many arrests police make for cocaine in a year? And how many does the DEA make in a year? Just asking.

smoking_joe_lee

Hey Red! Seriously, do you believe the stuff you write? There is NO CHANCE that terrorists would use tunnels? I saw pictures of some of these tunnels ant they are quite elaborate, not to mention EXPENSIVE to construct. Sure, drugs and illegal aliens are the top teasons for tunnels, but as for terrorists, NEVER SAY NEVER.
Now I am not in any way connected to law enforcement, but looking at the summary of court cases in my local paper shows METH number one when it comes to drug trials. If the number of arrests is what you consider conclusive, why not check alcohol related arrests. No prohibition there. Just a lot of arrests!
It seems to me you are either extreemly paranoid of the DEA and/or naive when it comes to the need to secure our borders against terrorists.
I also believe we can keep America safe without shredding the constitution.
by now...

Niteshift

Do you know how many arrests police make for cocaine in a year? And how many does the DEA make in a year?

It's tough to say, because the UCR combines cocaine and heroin together.

For both, there were 135,417 arrests for sale or manufacture (compared to 83,096 for pot)

327,771 for possession (compared to 613,993 for pot)


What I think you should find interesting is that there were over 52,000 more arrests for sale/manufacture of cocaine/heroin than there was for pot.

Sale and manufacture is where the DEA is concentrating. DEA agents aren't the ones out there finding a joint in your pocket at the park 99% of the time. That's not their focus. They go after the larger apparatus.


Another stat you might find interesting.

There were 1,538,831 arrests for drug crimes in 2002. In 2002, the DEA only made a total of 27,635 arrests (and some of those would be for offenses other than drugs).

Their seizures for 2002: (seizures are different than arrests):

Cocaine: 61, 594 kilos (MORE than the previous year)
Heroin: 705 kilos
Pot: 195,644 kilos (76,141 kilos LESS than the previous year. In fact, less than in 5 out of 8 years under Clinton)
Meth doses: 118,049, 279 doses
Other Hallucinogens: 11,532,704 doses.

When you consider the weight/density/dosage differences, that's a crap load of other stuff.

Pot seizures have DECLINED each year under Bush. Clinton 2 of the 5 highest years........and those were his LAST 2 years. The only time higher (no pun intended) was 86-88.


Maybe that will help you put it into perspective.



I saw pictures of some of these tunnels ant they are quite elaborate, not to mention EXPENSIVE to construct.

But where did they get that money? I thought "'ole Lupez" didn't have money to do things like buy planes or fly drugs in?