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Buzzby

You seem to be operating under the misapprehension that the public schools and teachers are operating with unlimited resources. They aren't. Passing school levies is like pulling teeth. Teachers are underpaid. Classes are too large. With the new federal mandates, certain curricula must be taught. If teachers are going to get the required material transmitted to students in the limited time available, they can't do what the parents should have been doing from the day the child was born.


I come from a family of educators. Teachers focus on a middle ground, not spoon-feeding the slackers, not really challenging the "brains". It's the best they can do with the time and materials they are given.


If that's what your teachers did, I feel sorry for you. My teachers (for the most part) were dedicated professionals who did their best to impart the material to everyone in the class. We were expected to have read the day's assignments and the classroom time was taken up with making connections beyond the text and in Q & A.

It's hard to find good people who are willing to put in 60-hour weeks 9.5 months out of the year for half what they could be making in the private sector.

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TheNewGuy

Thats what my teachers did, so feel sorry for me. Like I said, I had maybe 3-4 teachers in all 4 years of high school that actually "taught" the material. The rest just read the information that they had to read, gave out worksheets, and that was that. That isn't teaching. And almost everyone I know has had a similar experience. 80% of teachers don't have a clue how to do thier job correctly.

I have no idea where you got the idea that all teachers were the same. In my experience, I had teachers that focused on the "favorites" (what you probably meant by the "brains") and teachers that just didn't really do anything at all. Only a few were able to appeal to the entire class, or at least the majority.

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Sec

If possible, I would like to add my $0.02 worth here.

I agree with both points. You have good parents who motivate and encourage their children and you have passive parents who, unless the kid was missing for more than a week, they wouldn't notice.

You also have teachers who genuinely care about which students are grasping the material and are willing to stay late and put in the extra time needed. On the other hand, there are also teachers who look forward to their paychecks and nothing else.

My situation: I have two sons, born 2 years & 2 months apart. One didn't seem to grasp the concept of "book learning". He learned by lifes experiences and "hands on". Played football, excelled in shop and welding classes. He struggled to get through high school, taking 5 years and barely getting D's at best. Never went to college or a trade school. He now works running heavy equipment and is perfectly happy, although sometimes frustrated with bosses, co-workers, etc., same as everyone else.

The other son always made the honor roll, played his favorite sports, football, baseball & track. Excelled at the sports, was not "All-State" material, but good enough. He also liked the shop and welding classes. He is now almost through college with an engineering degree with a minor in another subject. He also works on summer breaks and Christmas operating heavy equipment for living expenses while at school.

They went to the same school, had the same teachers (and needless to say, the same parents) Same motivations and the same distractions.

My point: Sometimes it isn't the parents or the teachers. Sometimes it isn't the home environment or the school system. Sometimes it is just the kids themselves.

Same concept with marijuana use and kids. When I was in school, I did not smoke pot but some of my friends did. I knew where to get it and had plenty of opportunity, I just chose not to. My friends chose the other option. Sometimes it is just the kid's choice.

I do know if they started drug testing kids in schools, it would pop the bubble that a lot of parents who think "My little Angel wouldn't do that". Kids are great at hiding things from their parents and parents are good at denial. If "Little Johnny or Jane" was caught using pot, the parents would just blame the schools and probably (if they could afford it) put them in private school. The school system would blame the parents. Round and round we go.

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Cassius

You seem to be operating under the misapprehension that motivating students to learn requires resources. It doesn't.

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Sec

For the record, CITY classrooms might be too large (too many kids per class). Here in the country, classrooms rarely have more than 15 kids per classroom. Our entire 2nd grade has only 10 kids in it, one teacher. About the same for the other grades. there are a total of 136 kids in the entire school -grades K through 12. We are not the exception for rural schools, ours is about average for most schools throughout the State.

You cannot generalize that all classrooms are overcrowded or that teachers are underpaid. 1/2 of the nations kids attend a rural school. (just guessing here, but there are a lot more rural schools).

I have never gone to the school where a teacher was in the classroom before 8:00 am or after 3:20 p.m. I once figured out exactly how much a 20 year teacher made hourly (using a Montana town small school teacher's salary). Figuring the "in-Service" days, Parent-teacher conferences, etc. That teacher made over $32 per hour. A starting teacher, fresh out of college made over $17 per hour. I did this about 10 years ago after the local newspaper published each teacher's salary (along with ALL public employees salaries). They didn't just list a job title and a salary. The paper named each person on the various payrolls and gave their annual salary. This created quite a ruckus, but it is all a matter of public record so the paper could publish away.

If a teacher stayed after class was let out, it was because he/she was a coach or bus driver for which they were paid extra.

I don't think these teachers are underpaid at all. Sure, for a 12 month job, their salary might be a bit low, but the teachers at our small school always got summer employment at a construction company or some other seasonal employment and added to their yearly income. The rest of us cannot do that. Oh, they are also exempt from SSI taxes. Granted, they must pay a medical and retirement partially from that salary (partially from the employer), but still, thats a lotta cash for an hourly salary, straight days, no holidays or weekends.

 

Buzzby

How, exactly, can you do anything without resources? One teacher in one day can only do so many things. That time could be spent babysitting kids with behavior problems. That time could be spent enhancing the learning of motivated students. That time could be spent playing Sesame Street with with students who don't give a damn.

Teacher time is a limited resource because teachers can only be doing one thing at any given time. Will the school board provide special teaching materials needed to catch the attention of the unmotivated? Will tax payers provide the money for more teachers and more classrooms so that all students can get the kind of teaching they need?


My mother taught junior high and high school for 26 years. She never got to school after 7:30AM. She rarely left before 4:45PM. Teachers are often advisors for extra-curricular activities, a job for which they receive no extra compensation. Mom advised the yearbook group and the French club. My mother typically spent 3-4 hour a night grading papers, planning classes, and writing tests.

When Mom retired, she had a Master's plus 20 hours towards a PhD. She had been teaching for 26 years. I had a BS and was in my fourth year as a programmer/analyst. I was making more than she was.

Sec

There are exceptions to every rule. Perhaps your mother was the exception... or rather EXCEPTIONAL.

smoking joe

You hit the nail on the head. That was the most important quote in this thread. Your mom spent a HUGE amount of time,training for a job that pays very poorly for the education required. A teacher with a BA in teaching makes a little over 24,000 dollars a year. A high school drop out can make that much working at the mall.

Sec

Considering that the high school drop out works about 250 days per year if lucky enough to work full time. (365 days minus 104 days for the weekends, less 7 holidays and 4 sick days). The Mall Worker usually must work evenings, weekends and/or holidays. That $24,000 per year is the MOST this worker will ever make at this job. Although I don't know of a mall worker making that much. If a cashier in a mall makes $8.00 per hour X 40 hours per week X 52 weeks per year, that is only $16,640 annually. That is if working 40 hours per week for EVERY week of the year. There are usually no benefits offered (i.e. medical, retirement, annual leave, etc.) Lunch breaks are usually unpaid.

Now consider the teacher works only about 190 days per year. (180 required in school days plus any in-service and conference days). Less than that if they take sick days or annual leave. The teacher works straight days (except conferences), no weekends and no holidays. As a matter of fact, they usually get a couple of weeks off during Christmas/New Year. $24,000 per year is a starting salary or at least a salary for a teacher with LESS than 5 years experience. Those with more experience make more money. Teachers are eligible for medical benefits, annual leave, retirement etc. lunch breaks are included in the pay. The teacher can work at the same mall alongside the drop out and make an additional $6,000 in the summer.

Not exactly equal now.

MrIMStoned

Obviously you've never had a real job.

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