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Murders linked to pot use
Mark Buttler | news.com.au | July 10, 2006

Two young men and a couple who left behind a young child were the victims of fatal stabbings in the space of nine days.

It is suspected psychosis brought on by marijuana may have been a factor.

Drug counsellors have warned super-potent, genetically modified dope grown in suburban houses is severely affecting some users.

There are strong concerns among senior police at the links between cannabis-induced psychosis and killings and other violent crimes.

Charges have been laid over each of last month's fatal stabbings.

The mother of one of the accused men recently told the Herald Sun her son suffered a mental illness and she had made calls to a number of help lines seeking aid.

A man in his 30s died from multiple stab wounds in Warrnambool in June. The Herald Sun has been told a relative of the man accused in that case was concerned by his behaviour and had unsuccessfully sought help.

Five days later another man, 28, was stabbed to death in the Geelong suburb of Waurn Ponds.

The lawyer for the alleged killer told a court his client needed psychiatric help and should be transferred to hospital as soon as possible.

It is believed psychosis exacerbated by marijuana use is a suspected factor in up to three other homicides in the past 12 months.

Mark Bailey, who shot dead traffic policeman and father Tony Clarke in April last year, had battled a cannabis addiction.

It is believed this may have been linked to the psychiatric problems of Bailey, who later turned the gun on himself.

Former prison officer Roderick Nigel Martin, 33, last year tried to secure an acquittal on a manslaughter charge on the basis he was suffering cannabinoid psychosis.

Martin drove a stolen tip truck into the vehicle of Raymond Turner, 66, on the Western Highway, allegedly in the belief aliens had invaded Earth.

Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.

Marijuana hydroponically grown in houses has been blamed for a major surge in the drug's potency in the past decade.

A leading Melbourne drug counsellor said he was increasingly seeing the links between cannabis and violent crime.

Richard Smith of the Raymond Hader Clinic said the genetically modified marijuana of today was 10 times more potent than that of 20 years ago.

And it was turning many of the clients who came for his help into violent people, he said.

Mr Smith said heroin was once the drug that generated most of his work, but this had now switched to cannabis and amphetamines.

There appeared to be an unwillingness to accept marijuana was any more than a "soft" drug, he said.

"When people like me say it's dangerous, they think I'm a wowser," Mr Smith said.

"They don't realise I used to use heroin.

"Cannabis and amphetamines are the hardest drugs to detox off."

One police source said he had seen the tragic results of marijuana abuse.

He said three members of a group of six young men he dealt with had killed themselves in recent years. The officer said he believed their heavy use of cannabis was a factor.

It was revealed last year that hundreds of patients are being turned away as psychiatric units are swamped by young people in the throes of cannabis-induced psychosis.

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Mamabudz

According to this newspaper -- pot use is also linked to the beleiff in alien absuctions as well..

...wait ...where did I put my tinfoil hat?

casketfour

Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.
Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.
Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.
Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.
Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.
Cannabinoid psychosis cannot be used as a defence in court cases because the condition is self-induced.


there is your answer right there; I will never deny that Cannabis can channel you into your deepest subconciense; In fact I will come out right now and say it absolutely CAN.

People don't seem to realize that it also frees the WILL; THE CHOICE IS YOURS. This is exactly why it must be LEGALIZED and made into the psyciatric TOOL it was GIVEN to us TO BE.

the tree of life is being ABUSED AND MISUSED in our current world. IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO KNOW NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. IT IS THEY WHO MUST BE SHOWN THE LIGHT OF GOD.

oh and before anyone here attacks MY BELIEFS and trys to tell me I'M suffering from some weirdo schizophrenic delusional physchoses; let me explain to you what "psychoses" truly is by referring you to the ABOVE ARTICLE. It is the context of out-of-control rage,misery,self-loathing or any other form of what I like to call ANTI-EMOTION, that will take you outside the moral rational of all organized thought leading you to violate ethical and adult mannerisms to take up with negative progressive style behavior which one would ordinarily see as self-destructive or hey lets really say what we are trying to say - SINFUL BEHAVIOR.

I am here and I won't be going anywhere untill the day I die.

now with that being said .... I have an 8 am class.

oh, and you guys that get to smoke all the time are lucky, just make sure you know what you are doing. BALANCE is CRUCIAL towards HUMANIC EXISTANCE.

PEACE

Mamabudz

Here's another hint -- psychosis is not CAUSED by anything -- it is a triggered response -- like hysteria...

...in fact it is the new term for "hysteria" -- see guys can't be "hysterical" by definition -- they have no hyster -- or womb...

Just thought a clarification of the neofrudian dynamics is necessary on this topic.

casketfour

Allow me to illustrate that there is a definitive difference between being an individual who is "hysterical" and someone who is featuring "psychotic" symptoms; and while your argument does seem plausible do too mere word technicalities I would from this day foward no longer treat the word "hsyteria" as a viable diagnosis (but hey that's just me) for any type of psycotic behavior

The truth of the matter is psychoses (which whether you belive this or not) which is just as prevalent in women as in men (personal opinion through observation) is only prevelant in individuals with acute symptoms that would there by be availably labeled "effective causes" (if you would care to read Feuds' "the neuropsychoses of defence") - I have to admit from personal experience there is a difference between someone who is angry and someone who is sociopathic or homicidal.

You see you aren't born a "basket case" and if you were I would sure love to meet you; Though you are born with emotion and for some that emotion may be more piercing than to others. The truth of the matter is psychoses (and even hysterics) or the inverriable "seed" (as I would refer to it) that drives ill-fated psyches (personalities or personality traits) into the trenches of unparrelled, unstoppable and vastly growing rage or other forms of negativly progressive emotions, is brought on by subconcience often traumatic experiences and circumstances (not always resulting in physical injury) - driven by repressed memory and sometimes physical scarring; However.

when you refer to someone as being in "hysterics" such as uncontrollably sobbing - My personal opinion (not that I'm a doctor or anything) is that this is often coming from the same source;

most people (balanced healthy individuals) who have not suffered throughout childhood and life can easily cope with negative experiences, they are able to walk through the grieving process, express their negative energies and have these releases (cause lets face it we are machines that trap (take in) , create and release energy) I feel that there is a line to be drawn where emotional releases turn into hysterics and psycoses. That line is simple (loss of control)

For you (cause you are special ;-)) I will even step out on a limb and say "hmmm well what if this person was born with some sort of physically debilitating disease such as Tardi Diskonesia, does that mean they were born hsyterical or psycotic?" (hey, there is a reason to everything) I still say that while this person probally does not have control of their emotions, will or mind and thereby is a slave to their nervous system - this means impulse and compulsive behavior (watch out now we dont' want them become addicts (does it really matter to what?)) It DOES NOT MEAN that they are hysterical or psycotic. This is something that is GIVEN to you FROM OTHER SOURCES. And very easily INFLUENCED (every heard of psycological triggers?)

You say there is no cause; I say the cause is simple, lack of control coupled with repressed subconcience trauma that is driving alterior personalities and personality traits (wouldn't it be something if you could actually assign these a name and control them ) hmmm I wonder if that's how all them thugs become millionares. I wonder if that's why there is so much evil in the world - cause people know what they can do and CHOOSE evil.

What's worse the slave or the gluttonous?

 

casketfour

oh I just wanted to reply that I've actually witnessed my six-year old brother enter a form of "psychoses" when wrestling with him (taking his laughter to an extreme)

Allow me to reiterate that these forms of psychoses can be easily trained so long as they are no longer subjected to harsh treatment - you see it is also of personal opinion that while we are born into this world with negative emotion that it is by no means as advanced to the degree to which these alterior personalities woud surface (or even be created, as they would need be coupled with memory in some way) or demonstrate (no pun intended) as an adult (I'm not ignoring the fact that not all killers are adults) then again I've never raised a child - only kittens :-)

However if this ability is natural in a baby being born into this world then perhaps there is more to "orginal sin" then one suspects.

I think my point was that no matter what the emotion no matter how much excitement - there is a line that can be crossed (in certain individuals) where the balance between good and evil can be upset (whether through personal choice or NOT) where ethical and moral behavior is no longer of concern.

ok I'm going for my walk now haha.

ps I'm not being an asshole
this is just a subject I have great interest in as I have seen both sides of the spectrum

Mamabudz

Uh oh -- misunderstanding --

I was saying there is no such thing as so-called "Cannabis psychosis" per se --

There is ver much Psychosis that can be triggered by cannabis use but the Psychosis pre-existed the cannabis. Cannabis does not cause psychosis anymore than Cannabis causes shizophrenia.

And psychosis effects both men and women -- I was merely pointing out that women who showed psychotic behaviour were often described as "hysterical" and that the diagnosis of "hysterical _____" was archane.

We seem to be on the same page here -- see above

And we are in agreement here -- You put it quite well.

Hey -- I am special -- how'd you know? That's why I take these pills and the Nurse Practition comes and visits me at home every month to check on me. I ain't fooling with you -- I'm like "short bus" special, now do you know what I mean?

And it is exactly the issue of triggers that I was making with the issue of so-called "cannabis psychosis" -- it is misnomer -- could be possibly cannabis "triggered" psychotic behaviour -- or in beneficial example -- cannibis "triggered" euphoria off-setting suicidal behaviour.

But -- like you said -- I am special -- apparently -- we BOTH are

Why then you would be dealing in the realm of Dissociation -- which too many of our psychiatric professionals still consider an unhealthy survival mechanism -- Used to be referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder..

I have been working for a number of years on self-recognition and integration for just that purpos of control and self motivation. Along with the medications I use for bipolar II and cannabis I have found the results to be remarkable -- and that is with the additional traumas of the loss of my father, the ostracism from my family for being mentally ill (evidently the abuse I suffered never really occurred, it is all fabricated in my sick twisted mind -- of course the records of the State of NY police and Dept of Corrections support my sick twisted memory but let's not go there shall we?), a serious car accident, and the concurrent loss of my theatrical career from my injuries caused thereby. Ain't life just one grand party?

.

Could be -- but karma is a bitch ...in fact she's THE Bitch and I have seen it come back to gettem -- so don't be too concerned about the evil -- have a whee bit o' Faith that it all comes out right in the end.

For whom? The slave or the glutton?

You are a fascinating person and have an exquisite mind -- I appreciate your participation with this thread.

Have an excellent day

... and have a cookie

Mama Budz

Buzzby

Wow! What a steaming heap of Reefer Madness! Interestingly enough, "cannabis psychosis" is a "disease" that seems to exist only in Great Britain and its former colonies, not including the United States. We are blessedly immune. Either that or it's just another piece of anti-marijuana propaganda that the DEA/ONDCP/NIDA/FDA hasn't tried yet.


They don't sound too sure about it, do they? It's fascinating to me that millions of people use cannabis without any problems but when a few wack-jobs who also use it do something antisocial it must be because of the cannabis.


I've never heard of "genetically modified dope". Has anyone else? Today's strains of potent cannabis are no more "genetically modified" than cows that have been bred for many generations to produce the most milk.


Let's see. If ten percent of all Australians use marijuana and fewer than ten percent of killings and other violent crimes are committed by people under the influence of marijuana, then marijuana must prevent killings and violent crimes! Prohibitionists love to make connections where there are none if it can make marijuana look bad.


Oops! They forgot to say "cannabis-induced mental illness". How could they pass up such a great opportunity?


That sounds pretty tenuous to me.


Ah! Again someone who knows nothing about his subject matter is making definite statements to the public. As I said, potent strains of cannabis are not genetically modified. If they were 10 times as potent they'd be 40 - 150% THC. That's hard to do in this universe!


Is "wowser" Australian for "asshole"?


How can an "expert" talk about these two substances in the same breath? They are in no way related. "Detoxing" from cannabis (if you can even call it that) makes a person mildly uncomfortable for a few days. I doubt that any regular marijuana user hasn't gone through dry spells without much difficulty.


Or could it have been the chronic depression that led them to use a lot of cannabis in an attempt to get some relief?

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Mamabudz

With the exception to the term "whackos"

-- personally I like to be referred to as "Mentally Differently Challenged in a Very Special Way" or MeDiCina VeSwy myself -- sounds kinda Italian and hey they won the World Cup so I'll stick with it awhile

...gotta agree with you..

But I have to admit that when that "wowser" Richard Smith of the Raymond Hader Clinic proudly stated that

I think it was more a reflection on Mr. Smith then anything else -- Why when it comes to mental illness of Suicide ...evidently Mr. Smith is a CARRIER!

...and think about it ... Marijuana has never caused a death from overdose -- ever!

Now THAT's scarey!

casketfour

I really wish I knew how to qoute people on this board haha oh well Ii'll just use boldface

in anycase "Uh oh -- misunderstanding --

I was saying there is no such thing as so-called "Cannabis psychosis" per se --

There is ver much Psychosis that can be triggered by cannabis use but the Psychosis pre-existed the cannabis. Cannabis does not cause psychosis anymore than Cannabis causes shizophrenia."

You are correct in saying that I misunderstood and I would like to say that I completely agree with you here.


Hey -- I am special -- how'd you know? That's why I take these pills and the Nurse Practition comes and visits me at home every month to check on me. I ain't fooling with you -- I'm like "short bus" special, now do you know what I mean?

You are lucky; you get to live on your own haha, I live in an "assisted living complex" - no but really, it's not all bad I actually I have met quite a few good people, and it has taught me some remarkably valuable lessons.

And it is exactly the issue of triggers that I was making with the issue of so-called "cannabis psychosis" -- it is misnomer -- could be possibly cannabis "triggered" psychotic behaviour -- or in beneficial example -- cannibis "triggered" euphoria off-setting suicidal behaviour.

I agree with you here as well; I can go into farther detail on said triggers however - though I'm not sure I want to at this juncture. And anyway I think you and I both know what I mean (shit if I wanted to all I would have to do is say "beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice") the point is that as long as I was not influenced beyond my control then it would be MY WILL, as far as the whole euphoria aspect I'd like to think that we are "watering" down what is truly happening inside our "minds" and "bodies" at that point.

Why then you would be dealing in the realm of Dissociation -- which too many of our psychiatric professionals still consider an unhealthy survival mechanism -- Used to be referred to as Multiple Personality Disorder.

Yes I would http://www.marijuana.com/420/images/icons/icon7.gif
Smile, and I to some degree believe in what they have to say (not that they are as smart as they think they are). This is merely for the reason that I have witnessed people who may as well be walking catatonics, individuals that are so deep in the realm of pain (and perhaps the past) that they cannot bring any words of encouragement to themselves or others - only fragments and bits of broken speech accompanied by sorrowful expressions a lack of care to themselves and a will that screams "self destruct cause it makes everything better" Then their are those that - as you said have MPS - in which case I have witnessed a 37 year old man, whom has an adult personality literally transform (because of some kind of fear instilled in himself) into the psyche of a 5 year old child, that truly humbled me and made me sad. However in my personal opinion none of these individuals are to the point of no return (lets hope, perhaps it just takes the right individual to get through)


I have been working for a number of years on self-recognition and integration for just that purpos of control and self motivation. Along with the medications I use for bipolar II and cannabis I have found the results to be remarkable --

I wonder what medications you specifically take, if I may be so inquisitive?

and that is with the additional traumas of the loss of my father, the ostracism from my family for being mentally ill

(evidently the abuse I suffered never really occurred, it is all fabricated in my sick twisted mind -- of course the records of the State of NY police and Dept of Corrections support my sick twisted memory but let's not go there shall we?)

FUNNY - I'm experiencing (metaphorically) De Ja Vu "I must have made up my mother threating to kill my kitten right in front of me when I was a child, because hmmm I dunno maybe I'm just THAT bored."

a serious car accident, and the concurrent loss of my theatrical career from my injuries caused thereby. Ain't life just one grand party?

I used to believe that God truly enjoyed kicking us when we were down (and I'm sorry for your loss, and all of these experiences that you have been through) - As I stated earlier I can elaborate on some things that helped me when I was in this particular situation because I have been there before. Self recognition is something that it took me 21 years to perform, it was no easy task, but is something I do believe that every human being is capable of - no matter the circumstances. Unfortunately goverments and industries prey off the weak to keep themselves afloat in this day and age. The medications I see being given out to people (yes SOME do HELP) are preverabily nothing more then tranquilizers. I feel sorry for the people out there being fed that addage that "you have a mental illness and you will never be cured." While to some degree I agree that there is an everlasting effect on our minds from what we experience, I do not believe for one second that control is out of the question. It makes me sad for said individuals when they give into this fallacy and use it as an excuse for lazyness (sorry i'm not ranting about you, just someone whom I know has potential but cops out).

anyway

haha




Could be -- but karma is a bitch ...in fact she's THE Bitch and I have seen it come back to gettem -- so don't be too concerned about the evil -- have a whee bit o' Faith that it all comes out right in the end.

I agree, karamatric universe to the fullest. "All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet"

I appreciate your sincerity and kind words, I wish to extend them back to you, I am appreciative that there are those of us out there willing to think outside of the norm and trust our instincts.

And I do wish that YOU have an EXCELLANT day as well! http://www.marijuana.com/420/images/icons/icon12.gif
Wink

As I enjoy my pizza haha.

Kristopher