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Old 12-21-2006, 09:20 AM   #1
JnEverett
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Default USA: We can't win this war despite efforts that span decades

We can't win this war despite efforts that span decades
12-20-06 l The Herald Times Reporter

It's the war nobody in Washington is talking much about these days, primarily because we're losing it so badly.

The war was started by Richard Nixon and has been fought by Republican and Democratic administrations alike with no measurable difference in the outcome: we're losing and losing badly.

We're talking about the War on Drugs that was supposed to cleanse the nation of the curse of illegal substance abuse. We have spent hundreds of billions of dollars at home and abroad fighting this war.

We have attacked the producers in South America, Eastern Europe and Asia. We tried bribing farmers in those countries to grow other crops. We helped governments destroy illegal drug operations, which have led to violent clashes between drug lords who were more powerful than local police in some areas.

In countries like Columbia, law enforcement and judicial officials were routinely kidnapped and assassinated.

Closer to home, a recent report by a public policy analyst states that marijuana is the nation's largest cash crop, bigger than corn and wheat combined.

Jon Gettman told Reuters that he estimates U.S. growers produce nearly $35 billion worth of marijuana annually. Gettman used government estimates of the size of the illegal crop and national survey data on prices for the drug.

Officials with the Office of National Drug Control Policy wouldn't confirm Gettman's estimate, however place overall U.S. illegal drug use at $200 billion annually.

When you consider that we have the largest number of people in prison of any country in the world and 49 percent of the inmates in federal prison were convicted of drug charges, you have to conclude something's not working.

Here on the Lakeshore, felony drug arrests have nearly doubled this year over last year. While we would like to think drugs are a "big city" problem, our local crime statistics show that's clearly not the case.

Some have suggested that legalizing drug use – at least marijuana – is an answer to part of the problem. The drug could be regulated and taxed much like alcohol is today.

Unfortunately, that argument doesn't hold up. Even though it is regulated and taxed, alcohol is abused and is a serious social problem that rivals illegal drug use in its detrimental affect on society.

We can't win a war on drugs. That doesn't mean we stop enforcing drug laws, but it's clear that more attention must be paid to the underlying causes of drug use.

Criminals who profit from the drug trade must be dealt with by our judicial system. People who abuse drugs need treatment or they will likely resume their abuse following incarceration.

Treating drug abuse is less expensive than putting drug users in prison. It holds the hope that they can break the grip drugs have on their lives – something prison doesn't offer.
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Old 12-21-2006, 01:48 PM   #2
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Red face

Wow Someone noticed that even though alcohol is legal it still is a problem. Maybe you could do some research to find out why. Maybe what has happened is we banned the wrong substance.
One of the reasons we would like to see Marijuana legalized is because it is not as harmful as alcohol. It is not physically addictive. It doesn't ruin your liver. Research has shown that you know you are high so you drive more carefully. And you don't want to fight with anyone.
Drug treatments probably don't work because we don't see a problem with the use of Marijuana. Other than the fact that it is illegal, and therefore all the money goes to criminals that use the money to fund other criminal behaviours I defy you to find any factual information that shows that the use of Marijuana is harmful.
President Carter stated in 1976 that the punishment for Marijuana possesion was far worse than any effect from the drug. And that hasn't changed in the last 30 years. Except some of the punishment has gotten tougher.
If you were to legalize Marijuana use, production and sale to anyone over 21, tax it properly you could win the war.
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:08 PM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Some have suggested that legalizing drug use – at least marijuana – is an answer to part of the problem. The drug could be regulated and taxed much like alcohol is today.

Unfortunately, that argument doesn't hold up. Even though it is regulated and taxed, alcohol is abused and is a serious social problem that rivals illegal drug use in its detrimental affect on society.
Hello? We tried making alcohol illegal. Guess what? It resulted in criminals taking over the alcohol trade, violence in the streets, a general disrespect for the law, and people dying from bad booze. Does that sound familiar in a modern context? After a 13-year running disaster, alcohol prohibition was repealed. Why? Because prohibition doesn't work! Why does anyone imagine that the prohibition of other substances will work any better?

Quote:
We can't win a war on drugs. That doesn't mean we stop enforcing drug laws, but it's clear that more attention must be paid to the underlying causes of drug use.
"We can't win a war on drugs, but we should keep enforcing laws that don't work because..." Why should we lock people up for doing something that has harmed no one else? I don't think the author thought it through.

Quote:
People who abuse drugs need treatment or they will likely resume their abuse following incarceration.
Drug use doesn't equate to drug abuse any more than alcohol use equates to chronic drunkenness. Even people who advocate treatment don't seem to recognize that a person can use drugs without abusing them. The author assumes that incarcerating people for using drugs is the best approach - and force "treatment" on them while they are locked up.

Quote:
Treating drug abuse is less expensive than putting drug users in prison.
Then why are you advocating enforcing current drug laws which put people in prison?

Quote:
It holds the hope that they can break the grip drugs have on their lives – something prison doesn't offer.
If people abuse alcohol they aren't locked up. If they do something illegal while under the influence they are arrested. The mere possession of alcohol, use of alcohol, and even abuse of alcohol aren't illegal. Why should it be different for any other drug - other than a cultural prejudice?
__________________
60% of the people of America now say we are heading toward a depression. Not a recession, a depression. We are in desperate need of profitable industries that we can tax. Um... Now can we legalize pot?
~ Bill Maher

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Old 12-21-2006, 10:49 PM   #4
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Default Not Supposed to Be Won

After reading all the evidence for and against marijuana prohibition, I've reached the point in my life where I'm completely skeptical about whether the KKK will ever give up the fight against it. Marijuana prohibition give powerful white men in the U.S. an excuse to keep people down, to keep them from getting educational tution assistance, to keep them involved in the criminal justice system for use as prison industry labor and prison chain gangs, to prevent people from voting contrary to KKK values. It gives powerful white males a reason to get involved in wars around the world, to stick their noses in other people's business in order to send soldiers there to get control of resources the U.S. needs, and to send U.S. soldiers, who are usually poor males of color, to fight and die to make the white power elite richer and more influential in the world, while simultaneously reducing the population of the kind of people powerful whites don't take to. Same goes for the disproportionate percentage of non-whites in U.S. prisons who are getting infected in there with hepatitis c and hiv, you know, to reduce the size of what the consider an undesirable population, slow its growth, keep it poor and close to starvation in the ghettos, fighting among each other. Since these neofascists can't put us in concentration camps and exterminate us like Jews, gypsies, Armenians, mentally retarded people, free thinkers, liberals, Jehovah's Witness and other undesirables in the Third Reich and also can't lynch us in the light of a burning cross for being Black, Jewish or a X-lover or whatever derogatory term they would use to refer to us, they will never give up their prohibition of cannabis.

Imprisoning and denying medical marijuana patients their medicine and thus indirectly hastening or causing their imminent deaths to me is tantamount to the same thing the Nazis did with undesirable people.

If you're against legalising cannabis, you're as good as being a card-carrying member of the KKK to me. You're just as heinous and hateful and secretive, carrying out your evil plans.
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Old 12-22-2006, 04:08 PM   #5
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Default

If people abuse alcohol they aren't locked up. If they do something illegal while under the influence they are arrested. The mere possession of alcohol, use of alcohol, and even abuse of alcohol aren't illegal. Why should it be different for any other drug - other than a cultural prejudice?[/quote]



If people were arrested for alcohol abuse and possesion, could you imagine the raids at the football games and NASCAR events?
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Old 12-23-2006, 03:43 AM   #6
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansje View Post
After reading all the evidence for and against marijuana prohibition, I've reached the point in my life where I'm completely skeptical about whether the KKK will ever give up the fight against it.
What the hell does the KKK have to do with it?

Quote:
Marijuana prohibition give powerful white men in the U.S. an excuse to keep people down, to keep them from getting educational tution assistance, to keep them involved in the criminal justice system for use as prison industry labor and prison chain gangs, to prevent people from voting contrary to KKK values.
Huh? The KKK isn't made up of powerful white men. It's an organization of ignorant crackers who need someone to blame for their own lack of success.

Quote:
Same goes for the disproportionate percentage of non-whites in U.S. prisons who are getting infected in there with hepatitis c and hiv, you know, to reduce the size of what the consider an undesirable population, slow its growth, keep it poor and close to starvation in the ghettos, fighting among each other.
It sounds like someone forgot to take their paranoia meds. Obesity is far more of a problem in the ghetto than starvation.

Quote:
If you're against legalising cannabis, you're as good as being a card-carrying member of the KKK to me. You're just as heinous and hateful and secretive, carrying out your evil plans.
Congratulations! You've just condemned two-thirds of the population of the United States. That's the percentage that's against legalizing marijuana. And they're not secretive about it at all. They're neither heinous nor hateful. They're ignorant and generally believe the lies that they've heard about marijuana for the last 70 years. They don't want marijuana legalized because they've been told that it's bad for people.
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