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**Hashishi** · 09-24-2007, 12:47 PM

Put this idea into your pipe and smoke on it
9-24-`07 | Ventura County Star | by Thomas D. Elias

Another state budget writing season is over, and another deficit budget adopted (even though Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger won't admit it), with the usual lip service to fixing the so-called "structural deficit," but nothing serious done in that direction.

Meanwhile, from deep in the Emerald Triangle of Northern California, long reputed to be the national capital of in-ground marijuana growing, comes a simple idea that could both solve the budget deficit and end the greatest American hypocrisy since Prohibition. Too bad it has virtually no chance of passage in this decade or, very likely, the next one either.

You remember Prohibition, don't you? The era when hard liquor was banned by federal constitutional amendment but still remained available to pretty much anyone who wanted it. The era when rum-runners got rich and moonshine whiskey distilled in secret because a cottage industry in many a hilly rural area.

If that sounds a little familiar, substitute pot for booze. It is also readily available today for almost anyone who wants it. Drug cartels and the occasional small private grower get rich from the illicit trade. Pot gardens abound in virtually every wild, woodsy and hilly area of California (not to mention Oregon, Arkansas, Tennessee and many other states). Homes in middle class suburbs like Diamond Bar and Pomona are turned into greenhouses by hydroponic marijuana growers who are sometimes caught when their electric bills become astronomical and attract attention.

How much pot is grown in California? The take from the annual Campaign Against Marijuana Production, a joint campaign of state, federal and local authorities, now approaches $7 billion in street value, but law enforcement spokesmen generally estimate they confiscate no more than one-tenth of the crop.

That estimate recently spurred the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors to implore its local congressman, Democrat Mike Thompson, to press forward efforts to get marijuana legalized. As medical pot users in California have frequently discovered since passage of Proposition 215 in 1996 attempted to legalize medicinal use with a doctor's recommendation, any significant legalization will have to come from the federal level. State laws are simply too easy for federal agents to overrule.

The Mendocino County letter contains the seeds of a budget solution. It was based on one local official's estimate that marijuana contributes about $5 billion annually to the county's overall economy. The estimate is based on the approximate $500 million worth of pot rousted by authorities from Mendocino gardens.

The supervisors, of course, are concerned about their always-strapped county budget and figure that if pot were legalized, the county might get about $50 million a year in fresh income.

That figure could be very low. For sure, statewide, legalizing pot would produce much, much more for governments at all levels.

Do the math: If $7 billion is confiscated, then production in the state is worth about $70 billion, all now completely untaxed. Legalize the weed and you get an immediate $5.77 billion in sales taxes. Legalize it, and you then can track who's getting the money and make sure they pay income taxes, which ought to produce at least another $7 billion or so for state and local coffers.

That infusion would rise as the years go by, due to inflation. Taxes produced would be more than what's needed to end the often vilified structural budget deficit.

Add an excise tax and you get even more. The federal government wouldn't get enough from California alone to pay for the war in Iraq, but its national take after legalization might be as much as $60 billion a year.

This money now all goes into the hands of criminals and their cartels. Because their product is illegal contraband, these growers feel they must guard it. So they booby trap gardens, employ armed men to patrol around the clock and work to kill off any competition or turf poachers.

Legalize marijuana and much of that criminal activity would end because it would be unnecessary. The quality of pot, currently extremely variable and unpredictable, could also be policed.

There would no longer be any reason for anyone to fake an illness in order to get a medipot doctor's recommendation, so federal raids on dispensaries would end.

And law enforcement could concentrate more on other drugs like methamphetmines, cocaine and heroin.

Sure, there is a potential downside: Pot makes users lethargic and unmotivated. It can also be a step toward use of harder drugs. Much the same can be said for alcohol, and was said about it before Prohibition ended. But Prohibition ended because it was flouted to the point of absurdity.

The same is true for anti-marijuana laws today. Which makes it a shame that for now, the Mendocino County idea has absolutely no chance of even coming to a vote in Congress.

hash pancakes · 10-04-2007, 04:14 PM

You know, at first I thought that if the gov could tax mmj, they'd leave us alone. But on second thought...hell no! Why play into this scam? Like growing permits, agricultural inspections, etc we will be sorry we took this path. We owe them nothing. This will not make anything better. Our taxes are already squandered, why would you think this would be any different. You don't HAVE to pay the devil his dues.

Buzzby · 10-04-2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hash pancakes

You know, at first I thought that if the gov could tax mmj, they'd leave us alone. But on second thought...hell no! Why play into this scam? Like growing permits, agricultural inspections, etc we will be sorry we took this path. We owe them nothing. This will not make anything better. Our taxes are already squandered, why would you think this would be any different. You don't HAVE to pay the devil his dues.

Taxes would apply only to marijuana that's bought and sold, just as you pay taxes on beer and cigarettes today. If you want to make your own beer, you're allowed to produce 200 gallons a year per household w/o paying any taxes. It's unlikely that you'd be prosecuted for brewing more than that limit because there's really no way anyone would know about it unless you were selling it commercially. If you want to grow your own tobacco, it wouldn't be taxed.

If cannabis was legal, you could grow your own or barter with friendly growers without paying any taxes.

The economies of scale would make legal marijuana cost a fraction of black market prices, even if they taxed it 100%. The only reasons to grow your own would be a love of gardening. To get ideal growing conditions would cost me $5,000 in equipment and a big chunk of my living space, which is not practical for a personal supply. I could grow outdoors, but the climate here is far from ideal for growing high-end weed. For large-scale commercial growers, equipment costs would be spread out over thousands of consumers, making perfect pot well within the reach of most consumers. Large-scale growers would be able to produce it much more inexpensively than small-scale growers.

I'd love to be able to stroll into the Convenient store on the corner and plunk down $40 for an ounce of killer Sativa. The idea of having many strains available all the time is delightful.

Rauch|Drogen · 10-04-2007, 11:35 PM

It's really just a question of how long the Powers that Be can ignore common sense.

- Rauch|Drogen

hash pancakes · 10-05-2007, 12:03 AM

Sales tax at a retail outlet is one thing, but it doesn't stop there. Just a few monthes ago the county where I live passed an ordinance for local limits for Prop 215. They were also considering cultivation permits, $100 per year for individuals, $400 for commercial/caregivers. A garden for more than 4 patients is considered to be for profit, which I disagree. Yes, it's a good way to raise revenue, and if you could guarantee that the money would go back into the movement, such as helping low-income patients, then it has some merit. The county is also considering buying any surplus mmj which would be then sold to patients who can't grow or join a co-op. This would be low-cost, but they wanted the sheriff's dept to handle it. Hmmm. I think the Health Dept would be a better choice!
I live in a very small county, so maybe this could work. For a large area, I don't know. But atleast people are thinking & putting their ideas out there. Legalizing hemp could help this State more than taxing patients.

lordzargon · 10-05-2007, 07:48 AM

I guess I was taught wrong as a child in school... I thought that a State like Calif or Utah or Nevada or Florida JOINED the Union of the United States to be part of it.... Not to be Controlled by the Federal Government... Marajauna existed before the Fedarl Government and after all the states became states the Fedaral Govt said NO to Marajauna.... The State has the Right to make the Choice... A State is a Free Intady and all the states together are the Government... What the heck has happened... The States have the Power but the Government has the Ships... Now Go Figure That... How can an Intady that is made up of the people tell the people NO when the People say Yes.... That to me sounds much worse than Communism or Fachism or even a Dictatorism... It all sucks.

lordzargon · 10-05-2007, 08:02 AM

I dont agree with Mr. HASHISHI.... Marajauna does not leed to taking other drugs. Thats what THEY want you to believe... I LOVE pot.. Smoked it for over 40 years.. NEVER wanted Coak or Acid or anything EVER except Good ol Pot... Nothing is better than POT... No desier to be a Tweaker or some weird thing like that.. I am a retired Electronics Eng... A Couple good bong hits and a 5 mile run and you would not believe the inventions I could come up with... Without the Pot I was a DUMMY... LOL... Got D's in school.. Alittle pot and wamo got 95's in school.... For me pot relaxed the mind.. Then sleep for 8 hours and I was up to be the Best the companey had.... ya I know what Im talkin about... And lazy?? Well I did like and do like to kick back on the sofa. Better than a Bar. I have seen real drug users and they are not the same as pot smokers.. There different breed. WEED dont make you want hard drugs.. Thats a Government lie or the people already had the problem before they started smokin pot... Its like the old story that Viet Nam ruined so many people that 10% came back crazy, well guess what there were 10% crazys that Went to Viet Nam.. People are what they are... Sorry about my Quote but taking hard drugs because you smoke pot is BS. Its not your fault Sir. Thats just THERE Programming... Get un Programed with a good GRAM of Blue Berry... LOLOLOL

lordzargon · 10-05-2007, 08:15 AM

Dont take Tax money from Marajauna and pay for a WAR. Thats Crazy. WAR is BAD. Take the Tax money and build a Fusion Reactor for the worlds energy needs.... If everybody in the USA smoked pot for 1 week than all wars would be over that the usa started. Be real. Whos the invaders. Pot smokers dont go out and start fights. We dont usually speed in cars.. We dont kill. We are usually very carful and attentive people... Weed you just pick it and smoke it. What else on the planet can do that.. Alcohol must be made and so does Sped and acid and all that crap.. GOD made Weed just before he went to sleep.. LOL.. remember WEED grew along the Nile and look at the Paramids baby... All the great thinkers of old smoked good bud... Its obvious many Law Makers or Goverments dont smoke pot cause all they want to do is hurt people... I will keep my comments to my self.... I am for NORMAL... Not everyone can smoke pot I believe.. There are those who have grave mental problems but than again has there been proper studies... Maybe pot could cure some deep mental problems that some may have.... I am not a doctor, just a scientist

hash pancakes · 10-06-2007, 04:15 PM

I guess I'm a little odd...I started with lsd & then moved on to pot! I think of cannabis as a general tonic for the soul.
Some media try to link pot with violence, which I've yet to see a knockdown-drag-out fight after smoking a fattie! (Okay, maybe a scuffle over that last brownie) But it's effect on your attitude is one of peace, not conflict.
Our gov no long serves the needs of the people. WE employ THEM. They are supposed to be "public servants" not overlords. Since we never are told the whole truth, how can we possibly make sound decisions. I don't know how we can change this system except to try to make your life & community a better place.

**Pompo** · 10-06-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordzargon

I dont agree with Mr. HASHISHI....

The viewpoints expressed in the article are those of the author, Thomas D. Elias

09-24-2007, 12:47 PM	#1
Hashishi Unf*ckwit'able Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,875 Grams: 21,658.15 Groans: 3 Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts Thanks: 712 Thanked 856 Times in 502 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	CA: Put this idea into your pipe and smoke on it Put this idea into your pipe and smoke on it 9-24-`07 \| Ventura County Star \| by Thomas D. Elias Another state budget writing season is over, and another deficit budget adopted (even though Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger won't admit it), with the usual lip service to fixing the so-called "structural deficit," but nothing serious done in that direction. Meanwhile, from deep in the Emerald Triangle of Northern California, long reputed to be the national capital of in-ground marijuana growing, comes a simple idea that could both solve the budget deficit and end the greatest American hypocrisy since Prohibition. Too bad it has virtually no chance of passage in this decade or, very likely, the next one either. You remember Prohibition, don't you? The era when hard liquor was banned by federal constitutional amendment but still remained available to pretty much anyone who wanted it. The era when rum-runners got rich and moonshine whiskey distilled in secret because a cottage industry in many a hilly rural area. If that sounds a little familiar, substitute pot for booze. It is also readily available today for almost anyone who wants it. Drug cartels and the occasional small private grower get rich from the illicit trade. Pot gardens abound in virtually every wild, woodsy and hilly area of California (not to mention Oregon, Arkansas, Tennessee and many other states). Homes in middle class suburbs like Diamond Bar and Pomona are turned into greenhouses by hydroponic marijuana growers who are sometimes caught when their electric bills become astronomical and attract attention. How much pot is grown in California? The take from the annual Campaign Against Marijuana Production, a joint campaign of state, federal and local authorities, now approaches $7 billion in street value, but law enforcement spokesmen generally estimate they confiscate no more than one-tenth of the crop. That estimate recently spurred the Mendocino County Board of Supervisors to implore its local congressman, Democrat Mike Thompson, to press forward efforts to get marijuana legalized. As medical pot users in California have frequently discovered since passage of Proposition 215 in 1996 attempted to legalize medicinal use with a doctor's recommendation, any significant legalization will have to come from the federal level. State laws are simply too easy for federal agents to overrule. The Mendocino County letter contains the seeds of a budget solution. It was based on one local official's estimate that marijuana contributes about $5 billion annually to the county's overall economy. The estimate is based on the approximate $500 million worth of pot rousted by authorities from Mendocino gardens. The supervisors, of course, are concerned about their always-strapped county budget and figure that if pot were legalized, the county might get about $50 million a year in fresh income. That figure could be very low. For sure, statewide, legalizing pot would produce much, much more for governments at all levels. Do the math: If $7 billion is confiscated, then production in the state is worth about $70 billion, all now completely untaxed. Legalize the weed and you get an immediate $5.77 billion in sales taxes. Legalize it, and you then can track who's getting the money and make sure they pay income taxes, which ought to produce at least another $7 billion or so for state and local coffers. That infusion would rise as the years go by, due to inflation. Taxes produced would be more than what's needed to end the often vilified structural budget deficit. Add an excise tax and you get even more. The federal government wouldn't get enough from California alone to pay for the war in Iraq, but its national take after legalization might be as much as $60 billion a year. This money now all goes into the hands of criminals and their cartels. Because their product is illegal contraband, these growers feel they must guard it. So they booby trap gardens, employ armed men to patrol around the clock and work to kill off any competition or turf poachers. Legalize marijuana and much of that criminal activity would end because it would be unnecessary. The quality of pot, currently extremely variable and unpredictable, could also be policed. There would no longer be any reason for anyone to fake an illness in order to get a medipot doctor's recommendation, so federal raids on dispensaries would end. And law enforcement could concentrate more on other drugs like methamphetmines, cocaine and heroin. Sure, there is a potential downside: Pot makes users lethargic and unmotivated. It can also be a step toward use of harder drugs. Much the same can be said for alcohol, and was said about it before Prohibition ended. But Prohibition ended because it was flouted to the point of absurdity. The same is true for anti-marijuana laws today. Which makes it a shame that for now, the Mendocino County idea has absolutely no chance of even coming to a vote in Congress. __________________ SWP "I'm not into this detail stuff. I'm more concepty." -- "If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." -- "Secretary Powell and I agree on every single issue that has ever been before this administration except for those instances where Colin's still learning." -- "As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns: the ones we don't know we don't know."

10-05-2007, 07:48 AM	#6
lordzargon New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4 Grams: 1,012.40 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Freedom I guess I was taught wrong as a child in school... I thought that a State like Calif or Utah or Nevada or Florida JOINED the Union of the United States to be part of it.... Not to be Controlled by the Federal Government... Marajauna existed before the Fedarl Government and after all the states became states the Fedaral Govt said NO to Marajauna.... The State has the Right to make the Choice... A State is a Free Intady and all the states together are the Government... What the heck has happened... The States have the Power but the Government has the Ships... Now Go Figure That... How can an Intady that is made up of the people tell the people NO when the People say Yes.... That to me sounds much worse than Communism or Fachism or even a Dictatorism... It all sucks.

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10-04-2007, 04:14 PM	#2
hash pancakes New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 34 Grams: 1,243.70 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 12 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	You know, at first I thought that if the gov could tax mmj, they'd leave us alone. But on second thought...hell no! Why play into this scam? Like growing permits, agricultural inspections, etc we will be sorry we took this path. We owe them nothing. This will not make anything better. Our taxes are already squandered, why would you think this would be any different. You don't HAVE to pay the devil his dues.

10-04-2007, 11:35 PM	#4
Rauch\|Drogen Jr. Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 141 Grams: 1,595.53 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	It's really just a question of how long the Powers that Be can ignore common sense. - Rauch\|Drogen

10-05-2007, 12:03 AM	#5
hash pancakes New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 34 Grams: 1,243.70 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 12 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Sales tax at a retail outlet is one thing, but it doesn't stop there. Just a few monthes ago the county where I live passed an ordinance for local limits for Prop 215. They were also considering cultivation permits, $100 per year for individuals, $400 for commercial/caregivers. A garden for more than 4 patients is considered to be for profit, which I disagree. Yes, it's a good way to raise revenue, and if you could guarantee that the money would go back into the movement, such as helping low-income patients, then it has some merit. The county is also considering buying any surplus mmj which would be then sold to patients who can't grow or join a co-op. This would be low-cost, but they wanted the sheriff's dept to handle it. Hmmm. I think the Health Dept would be a better choice! I live in a very small county, so maybe this could work. For a large area, I don't know. But atleast people are thinking & putting their ideas out there. Legalizing hemp could help this State more than taxing patients.

10-05-2007, 08:02 AM	#7
lordzargon New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4 Grams: 1,012.40 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I dont agree with Mr. HASHISHI.... Marajauna does not leed to taking other drugs. Thats what THEY want you to believe... I LOVE pot.. Smoked it for over 40 years.. NEVER wanted Coak or Acid or anything EVER except Good ol Pot... Nothing is better than POT... No desier to be a Tweaker or some weird thing like that.. I am a retired Electronics Eng... A Couple good bong hits and a 5 mile run and you would not believe the inventions I could come up with... Without the Pot I was a DUMMY... LOL... Got D's in school.. Alittle pot and wamo got 95's in school.... For me pot relaxed the mind.. Then sleep for 8 hours and I was up to be the Best the companey had.... ya I know what Im talkin about... And lazy?? Well I did like and do like to kick back on the sofa. Better than a Bar. I have seen real drug users and they are not the same as pot smokers.. There different breed. WEED dont make you want hard drugs.. Thats a Government lie or the people already had the problem before they started smokin pot... Its like the old story that Viet Nam ruined so many people that 10% came back crazy, well guess what there were 10% crazys that Went to Viet Nam.. People are what they are... Sorry about my Quote but taking hard drugs because you smoke pot is BS. Its not your fault Sir. Thats just THERE Programming... Get un Programed with a good GRAM of Blue Berry... LOLOLOL

10-05-2007, 08:15 AM	#8
lordzargon New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4 Grams: 1,012.40 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Dont take Tax money from Marajauna and pay for a WAR. Thats Crazy. WAR is BAD. Take the Tax money and build a Fusion Reactor for the worlds energy needs.... If everybody in the USA smoked pot for 1 week than all wars would be over that the usa started. Be real. Whos the invaders. Pot smokers dont go out and start fights. We dont usually speed in cars.. We dont kill. We are usually very carful and attentive people... Weed you just pick it and smoke it. What else on the planet can do that.. Alcohol must be made and so does Sped and acid and all that crap.. GOD made Weed just before he went to sleep.. LOL.. remember WEED grew along the Nile and look at the Paramids baby... All the great thinkers of old smoked good bud... Its obvious many Law Makers or Goverments dont smoke pot cause all they want to do is hurt people... I will keep my comments to my self.... I am for NORMAL... Not everyone can smoke pot I believe.. There are those who have grave mental problems but than again has there been proper studies... Maybe pot could cure some deep mental problems that some may have.... I am not a doctor, just a scientist

10-06-2007, 04:15 PM	#9
hash pancakes New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 34 Grams: 1,243.70 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 12 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I guess I'm a little odd...I started with lsd & then moved on to pot! I think of cannabis as a general tonic for the soul. Some media try to link pot with violence, which I've yet to see a knockdown-drag-out fight after smoking a fattie! (Okay, maybe a scuffle over that last brownie) But it's effect on your attitude is one of peace, not conflict. Our gov no long serves the needs of the people. WE employ THEM. They are supposed to be "public servants" not overlords. Since we never are told the whole truth, how can we possibly make sound decisions. I don't know how we can change this system except to try to make your life & community a better place.

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