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Old 10-06-2007, 08:19 PM   #1
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Default AZ : It's time to consider legalizing marijuana

It's time to consider legalizing marijuana
10/5/07|The Arizona Republic| by Robert Robb, Columnist

A recent Government Accountability Office report on drug interdiction in Mexico is so bleak you have to wonder, what's the point?

From 2000 to 2005, according to the GAO, the amount of marijuana flowing into the United States from Mexico increased 44 percent. Cocaine shipments to the United States increased 64 percent. Heroin production for U.S. consumption nearly doubled.

The National Drug Intelligence Center estimates that the total value of the illegal drug trade between Mexico and the United States at between $8 billion and $23 billion.

The upper end of that range has eye-popping significance.

Mexico's economy relies heavily on trade with the United States. At the upper end of the range, the illegal drug trade is equivalent to 14 percent of the total value of Mexico's legal exports to the United States. Illegal drugs are probably Mexico's second-leading export to the United States, lagging behind only oil.

It is not as though nothing was being done during the period the GAO studied. The U.S. gave Mexico nearly $400 million to assist in drug interdiction. Former President Vicente Fox made interrupting the drug trade a priority. Cartel leaders were targeted. Extraditions to the U.S. increased. A new federal police force was formed to try to bypass the corruption in other agencies.

New Mexican President Felipe Calderón is taking even more aggressive action. Regardless of the good will and stern intentions of Mexico's senior federal leadership, however, the money in the illegal drug trade simply overwhelms the rule of law at the local level. That's a serious problem, for Mexico and the U.S.

So, what to do about it?

Decriminalization for recreational drug use has been a safe haven for those who believe that locking up people strictly for drug use is wrong or have concluded that the war on drugs is futile. I've rested comfortably there for years.

However, removing criminal sanctions for drug use won't dismantle the destructive and dangerous criminal supply networks that have taken deep root in Mexico and, increasingly, here in the United States. Only a legal means of production, distribution and sale will do that.

That's a far less comfortable proposition. Making the production and sale of drugs commercially available, particularly hard drugs, is unnerving and scary.

Perhaps legalizing just marijuana would make the problem manageable.

According to a federal study, 6 percent of the population over the age of 12 had used marijuana in the previous month. That's nearly 15 million people.

Only about 1 percent of the population had used cocaine in the previous month. The numbers for meth and heroin were even lower, two-tenths of 1 percent and one-tenth of 1 percent respectively.

Marijuana accounts for over 60 percent of the proceeds of the illegal drug trade between Mexico and the United States, according to the NDIC estimate.

So, perhaps the line on legalization, rather than decriminalization, can be drawn at marijuana. Perhaps that would give Mexican officials a fighting chance to get on top of the remainder of the drug trade and install the rule of law at the local level.

Legalization of even marijuana would be a big step into the unknown.

Despite the claims of incautious legalization advocates, usage would undoubtedly go up as prices dropped, product became more available and convenient, and risks disappeared.

And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high.

The experience of other countries with legalization of marijuana and some harder drugs is mixed, at best. Recreational drug use becoming a visible part of a culture isn't a good thing.

Perhaps the United States could legislate a legalization of marijuana use for private consumption that kept it largely out of sight. That, however, cannot be counted on.

What the United States would be like with legal recreational drugs is unknown. Sometimes, however, the known is so bad or futile that a trade for the unknown is the best course of action.

That point has been reached regarding the legal status of marijuana.
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Old 10-07-2007, 02:10 PM   #2
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Default An incautious analogy

"And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high."


Confessions of a substance abuser

I use cinnamon recreationally--just because I like the mood it puts me in and the flavor it puts in me. It feels good. It tastes good. I start each day with a cinnamon high.

I know it's wrong. I know that my oatmeal is completely nutritious without it, but I'm hooked.

Fortunately, cinnamon is not, as of this writing, a so-called "controlled substance*", so it's still inexpensive and I don't have to steal or deal with criminals in a black market to get it. And, even though my substance preference is non-toxic and has not harmed me or caused me to harm anyone else, that's not the point.

The point is that a mature, moral person does not need to enhance their mood or their food with substances, especially a raw plant product. After all, what message does this send to the children?

*Controlled substances are actually out of control. It's an ironic label.

FACT: 71% of violent inmates have used cinnamon at least once in the past month.

FACT: 78% of hard drug addicts (alcoholics and tobacco addicts are included in this category) began with cinnamon, many as early as 3-4 years old.

FACT: Cinnamon vapors rising from hot oatmeal are a favorite delivery system for the abuser. The powerless addict ignores the risk of inhaling too vigorously and sneezing or even worse, coughing briefly. They are relentless in pursuit of their "high", and prefer a warm, cozy sense of well-being on a cold morning without regard for a possible singed nose from getting too close to the oatmeal as they are lulled into carelessness by the warm, sweet, earthy aroma of the demon, Cinnamon.

FACT: Illegal immigrants use cinnamon.

FACT: Nazis use cinnamon.

FACT: Terrorists use cinnamon.

FACT: The DEA believes that some children as young as preschool are lacing cinnamon sticks with crystal meth and using them to lure teachers and aides into naughty nap time activities. "Reports are unconfirmed but completely believable given cinnamon's broad use among hard drug addicts, violent inmates, illegal immigrants, Nazis and terrorists," asserted Chief Blinders confidently.

FACT: When injected with cinnamon, lab rats die within seconds...but they are delicious grilled.

This carnage must end! Ban cinnamon now!
Tell your congressperson it has something to do with Mexicans.

Last edited by elgrande : 10-07-2007 at 06:10 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 10-07-2007, 07:30 PM   #3
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That's a far less comfortable proposition. Making the production and sale of drugs commercially available, particularly hard drugs, is unnerving and scary.
We're already there. Alcohol is a toxic, addictive drug that causes more deaths than any other drug except tobacco. Tobacco is a toxic, addictive drug that causes more deaths than all others combined. Do you find alcohol and tobacco "unnerving and scary"?

Quote:
Despite the claims of incautious legalization advocates, usage would undoubtedly go up as prices dropped, product became more available and convenient, and risks disappeared.
I don't know any legalization advocate who has said that use wouldn't go up after legalization. What they say is that use won't go up very much. That's been the case wherever prohibition laws have been eased. Research has shown that drug use is price-inflexible, meaning that users will pay what the market demands rather than stop using. Marijuana is so ubiquitous that anyone who wants some can usually find it. Many dealers deliver. You wouldn't get that kind of convenience if the weed was sold at 7/11.

Quote:
And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high.
I've never met anyone who drinks alcoholic beverages who doesn't do it, at least in part, for the effects of the alcohol. That doesn't mean they all drink themselves unconscious. Marijuana is used in the same way. You can use a little as a social lubricant or to make a meal or a movie or sex more enjoyable. Connoisseurs value other aspects than the psychoactive effects, just as wine connoisseurs appreciate more than getting drunk. You can also smoke yourself unconscious, but that's a personal choice, just as it is with alcohol.

Quote:
The experience of other countries with legalization of marijuana and some harder drugs is mixed, at best.
In my extensive reading on the subject, no experiment has turned out to be worse than the US lock-everyone-up policy. Liberalizing marijuana laws hasn't caused whole nations to lie around eating Doritos. I don't know of any country that's legalized hard drugs (other than alcohol and tobacco). Treatment and needle exchange programs beat the hell out of incarceration, HIV/AIDS, and hepatitis.

Quote:
Recreational drug use becoming a visible part of a culture isn't a good thing.
Really? It seems that every culture has its traditional recreational drugs and they're quite visible. Think of France, think of wine. Think of Nepal, think of hash. Think of Mexico, think of marijuana. Think of Scotland, think of whiskey. Think of Kentucky, think of bourbon. The US exports billions of cigarettes, the deadliest drug, to the whole world. Mister Robb, you simply can't think outside the box of your own unreasonable learned prejudices.

Quote:
Perhaps the United States could legislate a legalization of marijuana use for private consumption that kept it largely out of sight. That, however, cannot be counted on.
Why hide marijuana any more than we hide beer and cigarettes? What difference does it make if it's visible, except to assuage your personal prejudice for some drugs over others? Walk down the street in Paris and you'll see people drinking wine in sidewalk cafés. You'll also see people hanging out smoking joints. What's the difference?

Quote:
What the United States would be like with legal recreational drugs is unknown.
No, it's not. You call the drugs you don't like "recreational drugs". The legal recreational drugs in this country you willfully ignore by not labeling them as "drugs" at all.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Pompo View Post
It's time to consider legalizing marijuana
10/5/07|The Arizona Republic| by Robert Robb, Columnist



And despite incautious analogies, marijuana isn't like booze. You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk. The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high.

The experience of other countries with legalization of marijuana and some harder drugs is mixed, at best. Recreational drug use becoming a visible part of a culture isn't a good thing.
As Buzzby said, the author ignores the legal recreational drugs we already have. Both mj and tobacco are plants that, when ingested, have effects on our bodies. How anyone can call one a drug but not the other is beyond me, especially when nicotine is a physically addictive, poisonous alkaloid. And the chemicals that the tobacco companies (especially in the US) add to tobacco for various reasons make it much more dangerous than 100% tobacco cigarettes would be. The physical destruction that alcohol can cause is well documented, as are the medical benefits of mj, yet the author states that "The only reason to ingest marijuana is to get high". ?? And, as Buzzby stated, he further makes a fool of himself by inferring that 'getting high' always equals 'getting drunk'. You can't take one toke just like you take one mixed drink or one beer? Yes, you absolutely can. I've taken that one toke many times and stopped there if the occasion warranted it.

I suppose we should look at the bright side and be glad that people like the author, who obviously isn't a fan of legalization, are finally seeing the light.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:27 PM   #5
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You can drink for reasons other than getting drunk.
But when you drink, the process of getting drunk has begun. As far as marijuana is concerned, you can be like Bill Clinton and not inhale. The same social features of alcohol can be applied to marijuana as well.
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Viper420 View Post
But when you drink, the process of getting drunk has begun.
Huh? That's like saying, "When you're born, the process of dying has begun." I'll have a couple of beers or glasses of wine pretty frequently, but I've only been drunk five times in my life.

Quote:
As far as marijuana is concerned, you can be like Bill Clinton and not inhale.
What has that got to do with anything real? You can "drink" the same way: don't swallow.
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