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Buzzby

Companies made bigger profits when they were allowed to dump raw sewage into lakes, rivers, and streams. This is the same situation. We shouldn't place business profits above people's health.

Do you think so? Marijuana isn't legal in The Netherlands. It's tolerated within fairly narrow parameters. Without any action of the legislature, the rules can change at any time.

How? If they go out of business it would be because people want to smoke tobacco. It wouldn't be because they don't want to smoke marijuana.

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blackandgoldpride

I'm sorry but even in FRANCE there is soon going to be similar smoking bans as in NYC. I feel soo bad for people in Amsterdam they have to go outside to smoke their spliffs. The horror.

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KWhite

Well. actually, here in Europe where social medicine is the norm, they HAVE the right to make it universal- smoking bans are prevalent because unlike Ameica, where if you can't, as yet, afford your medical bills you simply deal with that- proving second hand smoke to a workers compensation board might be real hell in Wyoming, for instance, where the employer can do no wrong...

Here you do get medical care.

So, hypothetically, if a gal worked as a waitress in a coffee shop and showed up with leukemia or lung cancer later on in life due to second hand smoke- that's expensive, in Europe or America- they then make the case that since she CANNOT be denied treatment legally, not under any circumstance- well it has to be paid for.

Since the "Society" is paying for it, despite her monthly contribution to the national health plan to pay her own way- they have the right to limit her rights where it causes harm to society.
The harm in this case being the burden on the health system that tobacco smokers provide.

You must understand that no matter what this woman will need in the way of treatments- chemo and therapy, after care it is ALL paid for- If I end up in the hospital I pay ten euro a day for ten days- for the stay- all else is covered- everything.

Being semi free democracies, they won't cut your right to choose to smoke in your own home or out in the free air- smoke tobacco if you wish- they DO see it as a fundamental rule of law that they can stop you from harming others-

Through that second hand smoke and the consequences thereof.

It was one of the hardest things for me as an American to get used to- we HATE to be told what to do and often I feel Euroopeans hate not being told what to do-

But here, in this system, it makes sense.

I hope that helps- I'm a bit stoned so my eloquence may suffer.

Happy Sunday

Kelly

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"Your mind is your own, your body as well, from the soul we need not speak, tend it well, making those decisions you deem worthy, aware all responsibility is in your hands when the smoke clears" Kelly L. White

"It is a principle of natural justice that when bad men make bad laws, or when unprincipled authorities compromise good ones, citizens are justified in protecting themselves from the very authority that compromised law and order." Gandhi

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Doc Mitch

you have a good point about not placing profits over health. but i dont really see how dumping raw sewage into lakes is on the same level as letting people smoke inside a work place. if the smoke inside a building is bothering you, you can easily leave. it's a bit harder to move from a community where somebody is dumping raw sewage. i know there are health risks to second hand smoke. although im not sure how great these risks are (maybe somebody could tell me?), i dont think they would be great enough to place people in real danger just from the time they spend in a coffee shop. maybe instead of not letting people smoke tobacco, they should just force them to improve their ventilation systems (cost friendly of course).

yeah, but how many people that work in a place like this, are going to working there forever?



i just dont really see the potential heath problems as being that much of an issue. people that go into coffee shops should realize that establishments like that are going to have people smoking tobacco in them. its not like the customers arent free to leave whenever they want. i can see how it would be more of a problem for employees, but if they really had a problem with it they should start searching for another job. the second hand smoke isnt going to kill them in the mean time.

also, its not as if everybody inside the venue will be constantly smoking tobacco. i doubt the place is going to get to the point where its clam baked from just tobacco smoke.

KWhite

Quite a few, actually-

The guy who owns my favorite coffee shop has been there for the last nine years that I have personal knowledge of- and has told me of years and years before that. Some of his staff are also very, very content to work there, apparently, since the same goth girlie has been asking me what I'd like in delightfully accented english for just as long..

How much second hand tobacco smoke will they be exposed to now?

None, now, they've removed that threat.

Good or bad- it's their nation- they make the rules.

Think of this, they DIDN'T give cannabis that same "Dangeropus" classification that they gave tobacco-

THAT is the biggest part of this story, really.