circasurvivefan

So I was reading an article on 'drugged driving' and found the following part of it interesting:

In 15 states (Arizona, Georgia, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia, and Wisconsin), it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle if there is any detectable level of a prohibited drug, or its metabolites, in the driver's blood. Other state laws define "drugged driving" as driving when a drug "renders the driver incapable of driving safely" or "causes the driver to be impaired."

I was wondering if anyone could answer this for me:

Basically it's saying that if a cop thinks you are high (you don't have to be, say you're tired and get pulled over late at night and the cop thinks you're high or even if you get pulled over and paraphanellia is found but you're not high) and orders a blood test for you and they detect marijuana that's a DUI? Even if it was marijuana in your system from weeks ago?

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troublemaker_42

Before a bloodtest could be ordered, I believe the officer would have to demonstrate exactly WHY he thought you were hjigh or otherwise impaired. there has to be some basis for the bloodtest to be ordered, it cannot be done on a hunch. To the best of my knowledge, a DRE (drug recognition expert--a cop with specialized training) would have to be the one to determine you were under the influence, or you'd have to show impairment during a routine sobriety test. If they found the pipe, that may complicate things, but to be honest, I don't believe finding paraphenila with an abscence of other evidence would be sufficient to draw blood. I'm not 100% certain, but that it my understanding of the law. Demanding a blood test on a mere hunch, with an abscenece of other evidence is a violation of your 4th Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure.

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If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

DRE

No that is not what it means . . . at least not in Pennsylvania.

First, the officer has to have reasonable suspicion that you violated a traffic law to pull you over. If, as in your example, you are just tired and not stoned and go over the center/fog lines, etc., the officer has the right to stop you. If, having stopped you for that violation, he finds paraphernalia, that coupled with your driving behavior, will cause him to be suspicious as to your sobriety. He may request that you submit to SFST (standardized field sobriety testing). If you pass the testing, you have no concern for DUI and the officer has no reason to ask you to submit to a blood test.

Now let's say that you do not perform well on the SFST for whatever reason . . . your extremely nervous, you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, etc . . . then the officer should call a DRE to perform an evaluation because the average officer is not trained to recognize the general indicators of drug impairment by the recognized drug categories that DRE's deal with and can not test you clinically (blood pressure, temperature, pulse rate, pupil size, pupil reaction to light, yada yada yada) like a DRE will. The courts have ruled that there are other factors that can cause your "apparent" condition such as a head injury, stroke, etc and a non-DRE officer is not trained in determining this, so they, generally, are not permitted to make a drug impairment determiniation.

If you had a stroke or head injury the DRE will rule you out medically and get you to a hospital ASAP, and if you are just a clutz the DRE will rule out DUI clinically.

Bottom line is a paraphernalia charge will not roll into a DUI just because you were driving. There has to be articuable reasons to believe that you are impaired by a controlled substance for a blood draw. No fishing expeditions permitted.

zoo

Call me silly but I'm not sure why ANYONE would standby and submit to requests from a "duly recognized drug expert" looking for evidence for an an arrest.

"If I pass the testing" for friggen grief.

Lights are on but nobodies home.

Zoo

DRE

DRE's are not called in unless you do not perform well on SFST and are placed under arrest. The DRE does not come to the scene of the stop. The officer making the stop makes a decision that he believes you to be under the influence AND that alcohol is not causing impairment. The arrest is then made and a DRE summoned. The DRE then conducts testing to rule out non-impariment (you are just uncoordinated) and medical reasons for impairment. If these are ruled out, then the DRE will tell the officer which drugs to test for.

jmhereiam

I know for a fact in Missouri if you were to get in a wreck, if the cop decided to he can order a drug test to be taken right then and if you fail you = driving under the influence. Even if you were to of smoken a joint over a week ago and you are completely sober when this wreck happens it doesn't matter they will charge you for driving while intoxicated, Bs huh?

styles215

http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Dri..._Marijuana.pdf
Stoned drivers are safe drivers | Cannabis Culture Magazine

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zoo

I know precisely how and when DRE's are utilized. I'm retired LEO currently employed by my state judiciary in the area of criminal law.

My point in the earlier post being that the individuals being examined by the DRE are not required by law to incriminate themselves and they have the right to decline participation in the examination.

It should also be noted that in a zero tolerance DUID state; it matters not why the individual was stopped or for whatever reason, if a blood sample is obtained by lawful means and trace levels ARE found in the sample such individual may be found to have been violating the (DUID) law.