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Comatose

Before I start this topic, I need to quote something taken from the Library of Congress website referring to specific state laws:

"Article X states that the national (federal) government has only those powers that are delegated to it explicitly ... All other government powers fall by default to the states -- residual powers -- with the limitation that nothing prescribed by state law can nullify any of the powers granted in the Constitution "

Okay, with that said, here's my thoughts about something that just recently hit very close to home: Random Drug Testing. I thank anyone who takes the time to read this and inputs their thoughts.

Amendment IV to the United States Constitution: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

In as simplified terms as it gets, this Amendment states that anything you own is your privacy and cannot - under any circumstances - be searched without a probable and viable reason. The 5th Amendment also protects you from incriminating yourself, but I wont even go there because my focus is on the 4th.

Can someone please tell me why companies (or schools, I guess) are allowed to issue non-warrented, random drug tests to their employees? In most cases, refusing to submit to a random test (and thus upholding your 4th Amendment right) is something you can get fired or suspended for. This is bullsh!t. And no, thats not my opinion, that's a fact. It doesnt matter who you are or what you stand for - coming into a persons life, liberty, and persuit of happiness without written justification is not only illegal but morally WRONG!

The federal government is the "highest" form of government in this country. The state's are the next highest, and so on and so fourth. The constitution is the one thing this country has unanimously agreed on as the "Supreme Law of the Land" and violating it as boarderline treasonous. It doesnt matter if a company makes you sign something saying you'll submit to random testing - It's not like I could get someone to sign something saying "If I do something to you, it's not illegal" and then murder the guy and get away with it. Even if I could, that's BS. It's stupid, its wrong, and something needs to be done.

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WNB

You don't have to work there. You agree to the searches (piss tests) by being employed there.

Or you could look at it this way; the government isn't violating your rights, your employer is.

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SacredJellybean

In this case, would anyone consider it impractical to file a lawsuit against said employer? I doubt you'd win, unless you had a good lawyer.

Niteshift

WNB is right.

The Constitution applies to the GOVERNMENT, not to private employers.

The 5th Amendment also protects you from incriminating yourself

As for this in particular, the Fifth Amendment doesn't protect you from inciminating yourself. It protects you from having to TESTIFY against yourself ("nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself") in a CRIMINAL case.

Employers aren't charging you CRIMINALLY. Likewise, the 5th only applies to TESTIMONIAL evidence, not physical evidence. That's what you can be made to roll up your sleeves to show a tattoo or smile to show a gold tooth or things like that.

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Comatose

This is the part of the 5th Amendment I was talking about: "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..."

Here's my big beef: I never signed anything saying I would submit to these tests. If I work there, they have no right to make me take one. I know that the Constitution is an application of the government, but isnt the government is a higher power than my employer?

Couldnt I technically refuse to take a test and sue them if they fire me? The grounds would be something like "Discrimination against those not willing to forfeit their 4th and 5th Amendment rights with no plausable reason to do so."

I really appreciate the input thus far guys!

 

SacredJellybean

Well, if you haven't (and presumably won't) signed anything that says you're required to take a drug test, I'd say you'd have a pretty good case if they fired you for refusing. Of course, I'm no lawyer...

Comatose

To quote Mr. Burns for a second: "Exxxcellent." <shuffles fingers>

I'm not sure if they're planning to have me sign something later on down the road, but all I know is I'm not submitting to sh!t.

I'm no lawyer either, but I know about four or five. Mostly the parents of some of my buddies, so it shouldnt be hard to find one if needed.

MickityMike

Then you'll be fired. Ask your buddies' parents about "employment at will."

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PsYcHoLoGiCaL

One thing that I never understood about that though is why is it that government employers are allowed to have mandatory drug testing policies. Can anyone answer this?

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CheebaMonkey

My guess is that the Supreme Court ruled that drug testing isn't unconstitutional.

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