Marijuana.com

IbeToken

Warning: Very cynical views ahead!

The government is a leaky faucet with no way of making sure it gets fixed. We just keep pouring more money down the drain (marijuana prohibition). I just hate to think of my children growing up in the dump that is becoming the U.S.A. everything sucks, I spend all my hard earned money going to a self-centered government that doesnt have concerns for what I believe is right, I can't smoke or drink what I want to smoke or drink, and my god damn place of business feels its necessary to randomly drug test me. I hate it all! I want to scream and spend the rest of my life making sure that the government stops wasting my money and life making sure I dont do the things i want to do (get high). I know that marijuana is the safest drug in America, we all do, even the people who are not for it, but people its not about marijuana. Its about making sure that soccer moms dont have to worry about something else when they are driving their cars to the field. Its about making sure people are doing something illegal so police have something to do. its about making sure people drive drunk or high so insurance companies can point their fingers somewhere else. Its about making sure people do not have the freedoms they want because some over zealous person in D.C. had a son or daughter who flunked out of school and made it their sacred journey for Jesus Christ to make sure nobody is affected by the "evil weed". I hate religious people like that, dont you? I want to stop everything and let people really speak for once and just I dont know, let people be people, forget about god and just let people be happy. Stop making people pissed off and live in terror. If people are going to smoke weed let them smoke weed, if they do crack let them do crack. if we are lax and let people take away freedoms we will not be free anymore. as soon as i am done with college i am done with america, we do not believe in people anymore, rather we see other americans as just people who buy the products. All Americans do anymore is sell ****, and lock ourselves in our homes, and go out in the morning to sell more ****. It makes me cry and I am tired of it all. When are people going to start hating the lives our government is making for us. Please change the world people, do it now, because it sucks, it can be changed, and if you still dont have a good reason to do it, do it for the child you might one day have. there is nothing wrong with disliking the way things are, just have a purpose and the world will listen.

 

Yana Usdi

I sympathize with the anger, I had plenty of reason to be pissed myself. I described some of it over a year ago the last time I visited here, thread called drug related crime or something like that. Can't let it get to you though, we've already lost too many people like that.

Better to turn it into attacking the system. Personally I don't think people should be doing most off topic drugs, I just think we have a better chance of controlling access if we did it ourselves than if we let the streets control access. The governments own surveys show that most kids can get pot easier than beer, depending on the neighborhood the same dealer has other stuff too. Control it ourselves and we can regulate access, keep it away from more people and better protect and educate the ones who do insist on doing something they shouldn't.

There's groups out there to get involved with and learn from, I'll leave a short list of them here. There's more, but these are some pretty good ones. Let's try to be careful not to go too far into the subject here though, they've been patient so far and I don't want to test the limits of that. There's others that'll link through these too.

Drug Policy Forum of Texas
LEAP: Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Homepage
MAP The Media Awareness Project
Drug Policy Alliance: Alternatives to Marijuana Prohibition and the Drug War
StopTheDrugWar.org the Drug Reform Coordination Network

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LEAP Current and former members of law enforcement who support drug regulation rather than prohibition.
Drug Policy Alliance Alternatives to Marijuana Prohibition and the Drug War

HappyMan

There is a very real danger of complaining too loudly about 'the government. ' It adds to the perception that the legalization platform is framed within a radical anti-government agenda. Such perceptions are counterproductive as they alienate the apathetic bulk of the population who need to be convinced of out legitimacy.

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Bla.

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Buzzby

What he said...

And all that whining makes me want to throw up.

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Yana Usdi

That's very true, should have mentioned that myself. Thanks.

Once you get into the reform movement the first thing they try to teach you is it's all about trying to make sure we're the most respectable, well sourced people in the debate. When change happens it's going to come from the inside, so that's where we have to work.

Anger can give you motivation, but you've got to let go of it at some point. At least try to put it back when dealing with people on the subject. Some don't turn out to be good with the public, there's other things they can do to help out too.

 

SkyTripper

Yeah....I feel the same way too, but I am just beginning to accept the fact that whining about it all is just another way of blowing off steam and many people just don't want to hear such a rant because it just does not accomplish anything anyway. If it makes you feel better temporarily....then it served a purpose.
As much as things suck, its good to remember that none of it will truly matter someday.
If its destiny for things to go down the drain.....it's destiny.
Try to just let it all go and NOT let the anger eat you up inside.
LIVE for TODAY!
The time WILL come when something will happen to invoke the necessary changes which are inevitable. Change IS constant and a fact in human evolutionary progress.
So no matter how much is done to continue a status quo on things......nothing can ever be done to stop progress and change from occuring.
Better or for worse.

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SkyTripper

greg258

I feel your pain. I would love to come home at night and enjoy a nice, legal, Cuban Cigar. While I'm at it I think my taxes are too high, my car is too small and too slow, the world would be so much a better place if that cutie that lives across the street would just break down and sleep with me, and... now that I think about it... our Mayor is kind of stupid looking. What to do, what to do.

Hey! I know! Maybe I'll just move to another country! (RIGHT!)

Everything in life is a trade off brother. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the big picture. For instance, I don't know any pot smokers that have done any hard time because they blow a bone every now and then. None of them appear to be living "in terror". Get caught... pay your fine... get on with your life. You want the freedom of choice? Bullsh!+. You want freedom to NOT make a choice. Before you take a job driving a truck, a plane, a train, a ship, or a police car, you have to decide if it’s worth it to you to give up the pipe. I, for one, don't want to be on the road, in the air, on the rails, or on the ocean with you if you are high. Enjoy your choice.

As far as freedom is concerned, I find that ninety nine percent of the people that think recreational drugs should be legalized are full of crap. They might SAY that they aren't bothering anybody and it isn't anybody’s business, but that isn't what they really mean. What they REALLY mean is "I would like to be able to get high whenever and wherever I want, even though I know it’s wrong. I would also like very much to impose my inebriated self on the world without them being able to do or say anything about it". How do I know this? I always suggest to my friends that indulge and state that there is nothing wrong with recreational drug use that I would absolutely believe they are sincere IF they gathered their parents, their kids, and their friends around the kitchen table and passed the bong around. Nobody has taken me up on it yet so I assume that they agree with me.

As far as being free and not affecting anybody else is concerned, we already have that. Go home. Lock your door. Smoke, drink, and mainline till you wake up in a puddle of your own swill if you like. Nobody cares. The police aren't going to come in through your windows or break down your door just to ruin your good time anymore than they are going to come and get me when I light up a nice, Cuban, Hoyo in my living room. But THAT isn't what you are really talking about, is it? What you REALLY want is to be able to be high out in the world, where you WILL affect other people. You want to be high at work, on the street, in your car and everywhere else the mood might move you.

That is why certain things are illegal. It isn't because anybody cares if you have drugs, a machine gun, or a well shielded biohazard in your house. Maybe you ARE responsible and you can "handle" it. Great! Smuggle it in and keep it home. We are all good with that. But we know that some people CAN'T handle it. We also know that none of the people that can’t handle it will admit that they can’t handle it and we KNOW that at some point, they are going to be bringing their sh!+ out here... with US. Most of us agree that it just isn't worth the risk, even if a particular pecadillo isn't the end of the world. I mean, if society REALLY wanted to end drug use (or prostitution, or gun running), we would just execute a handful of people and believe me, even the most ardent user and seller would suddenly find the will and motivation to quit right there and on the spot. But we agree with you that somebody having a little harmless fun isn't worth getting everyone's panties in a bunch over. We just want to keep everyone honest. We feel that the best way to keep certain things away from losers who will end up making us sorry is to make it clear that if you get caught with sh!+, it will cost you. It is a trade off that we are willing to make. Think of it as our way of filtering out the amateurs, the poseurs, and the dilatants. This leaves only the real aficionados and the complete a-holes willing to take the risk. As long as you are cool, keep it home, and TRULY don't impose on anybody, no harm, no foul! The rest of you... well... we are just going to have to keep breaking your balls until you learn to work within the system.

See? Everybody is happy.

Take care,

Greg

Yana Usdi

Greg, you've every right to your own opinions, but don't assume you know what motivates 99% of any group. Especially one you don't seem to be a part of. Prohibition the first time wasn't ended by drunks tired of being arrested, it was ended in large part by pissed off mothers tired of seeing their kids caught up in street crime over a policy that doesn't work. A large part of those currently supporting legalization follow the same logic, and they are right.

Look through some of the posts I've made in this board and in the US one, the stats are all there in the Governments own records. We've hardly touched prices, in some cases the prices adjusted for inflation are better than they used to be. Purity at the street level with small sales amounts have tended up over the years, and death rates have climbed rather than fallen. At some point we've got to ask ourselves, is this a policy or a crusade? Policies are adjusted and evaluated, and this one doesn't work and needs adjusted.

There's no love of drugs involved in recognizing that on most levels the damage we've tried to prevent has been increased rather than decreased by current policies. If you want people to be open minded about your thoughts, offer it in return.

I talked with Peter Christ for a short time the other day, a retired police captain from LEAP, you can read his bio there or see him in a couple of presentations if you'd like to hear it from his perspective. Something he pointed out that he wanted to emphasize more was that legalization involves simply getting rid of schedule 1. It doesn't mean let's party in the streets, it just means that if only criminals can handle it then only criminals will control it. Given that current policy doesn't work we need to get control of it again and consider other options. The details on how we'd handle it past that can be argued and need to be worked out as we explore and test options, but don't lump all legalization proponents into a category they've done nothing to deserve. The kids who want to party in the streets don't tend to be activists.

CheebaMonkey

I mean, if society REALLY wanted to end drug use (or prostitution, or gun running), we would just execute a handful of people and believe me, even the most ardent user and seller would suddenly find the will and motivation to quit right there and on the spot.

So when China started executing people who were opium addicts, why did they still continue to use it? In countries where drug trafficking is punishable by death, why does it still occur? After all, according to you, making examples of only a handful of people should have ended this, but it didn't. How come?

I'm with Yana on this. Your assumption that 99% of everyone who thinks drugs should be legal also think that they could get high and drive, is not only wrong, but insulting too.

As for the cops not caring what you do in the privacy of your own home, trying telling that to someone who's had people call the cops on them for using or growing marijuana in their own homes. I think they'll disagree.

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greg258

Hi Yana and Cheeba! Thanks for your insights into my posting! Let me see if I can answer the points you have brought up. Of course, it is understood that this is just my opinion and we can agree to disagree.

One of the factions against prohibition may have been pissed off mothers, but prohibition was abolished because most people wanted to drink and didn't care that their neighbors did too. Conversely, most people don't want to partake of recreational drugs and even the ones that do don't particularly trust their neighbors to do it. And they certainly don't want to see ads for "new and improved Newport Spliffs... now in a refreshing tropical punch flavor!"

I also think that it is definitely a policy and not a crusade. Most people are comfortable with it the way it is, especially where MJ is concerned. I absolutely agree that MJ shouldn’t be lumped in with the harder drugs. As a matter of fact, I agree that the policy should be adjusted. Criminal studies since the early 1900 have shown that the only way to decrease crime is to keep criminals in jail longer and forget "rehabilitation". In order to cut the incidence of any particular crime in half, you need to punish the offender you catch by removing him from the population for 19 years. By adjusting the time up or down from that figure, you can effectively determine how much of any particular crime society is willing to accept.

Punishments for the harder drugs are inadequate and should be MUCH stiffer. By that, I mean that jail should be a place where you learn to acclimate to society and to the norms of decent people. Work eight hours a day, then back to your cell, not hang out on the B Ball court with all the guys from the hood between weight lifting sessions, cable tv breaks, and sexuall assaults.

As for what China is doing, let's be realistic. It's China for Pete's sake. The opium trade fuels political corruption there. The people being executed are mostly political prisoners labeled as opium users so they can be killed or so their organs can be harvested and all kinds of wacky, off the wall sh!+. Besides, MJ is not opium. That is the point that many legalization proponents keep making, isn't it? As for having to legalize weed for the sake of all the kids dying in the streets as the Great American Weed Wars play out... I mean... DUDE! Come on! Isn't marijuana supposed to be differentiated from the harder drugs because it is supposedly so benign?

And I absolutely didn't mean to insult Cheeba. I never said that 99% of pot smokers want to drive high. What I said was that most pot smokers don't want weed legalized, and that 99 percent of the pot smokers who have told me that they think there is nothing wrong with smoking weed won't do it in front of their kids because they know it is wrong. What I mean by 99% is "all of them" minus 1% as a margin for error.

I will also add that in twelve years as a cop (six a police supervisor) working the most densly populated city in the US, I have NEVER had to go to someone's house to arrest them for smoking a little weed and I don't know of any cop that ever has. Anyone "who's had people call the cops on them for using or growing marijuana in their own homes" has broken the cardinal rule of the police not caring about using contraband in your house by putting their business in the street and involving others, just like I said in my original post. If you aren't cool enough to keep your sh!+ on the down low, you aren't cool enough to be smoking. Period.

Thanks again for the lively discussion,

Greg.