thevapors1911

(Here is an email that I got from a user, this did not happen to me, their email is at the bottom though)

I am 16 years old and being tried as an adult in New York City for criminal possession in a school zone and disorderly conduct. I feel that a number of my rights were violated. I wasn't doing anything illegal when I was picked up. I was on my way to school. I was picked up in a subway station in New York City and detained for being 45 minutes late.

When I was first approached by the police officers I feel that I was being cooperative. I asked them to tell me exactly what was happening and was unnerved by their vauge responses. I was told that I would either be driven to school or taken to a truancy center(which is a Board of Education facility). I let them pat me down before getting into the police van. Upon arrival at the truancy center I was told to empty my pockets and bag. I informed them that I would not consent to being searched as I felt it wasn't reasonable. I did not refuse being scanned with a metal detector but it was not offered as an option without consenting to the search.

The officers insisted that what was happening was not a search because I was going to agree. It was made clear, however, that I had no choice in the matter. I was told many times that if I did not give my consent I would be arrested for disorderly conduct and they would then search me because I would be under arrest. I asked them to get in touch with an adult who could take me to school. They said that they would but only once I had been searched and was allowed into the building. They said that this was for safety but I had already let them pat me down and they never offered to scan my stuff and leave it at that.

While this was going on they were creating an increasingly stressful and upsetting enviorment that was causing me to panic. I felt like everything I'd believed about my rights had been a lie. This was intensified by the various police officers saying things like "You have no rights. You're a minor." A District Attorney came into the room and started screaming at me very loudly. He was standing very close to me. One female officer in particular used more then reasonable force with me when she pushed me and forced me into a chair. I have at least one eyewitness to this. The same officer ended up grabbing the strap of my bag before I was arrested. I asked her to let go of my bag a few times. She used force(she started to pull my bag). When I held on I was arrested for disorderly conduct. I was not read my rights or charged. My things were searched on the spot.

I was not Mirandized until I requested that my rights be read at the station. Despite this I was not allowed to see my lawyer for about 24 hours. I was asked many questions though I was not officially questioned. I was asked about whether the drugs that were found(a misdemeanor amount of heroin and marijuana) were mine. There were certain personal questions about my history that I would have felt more comfortable answering after briefly meeting with a lawyer(this was basic paperwork) but I was told that I could not see a lawyer unless I knew one already and that I could refuse to answer but doing so would delay my paperwork and result in a longer period of incarceration. When I asked the arresting officer what I was being charged with he would not tell me and would only say "I'm going to tell your father." In fact he ignored many of my questions.

The needle exchange was called in order to verify that I was registered and therefore legally allowed to carry syringes. The arresting officer placed the phonecall from the station while I was in a holding cell. He began asking them personal information like my address and when I asked that he stop he continued to do so. Fortunately the Exchange does not keep this information on record.

My school put me on superintendents suspension (effective as of March 7, 2001) even though I was not arrested in school. I might be expelled. If that happens my mother could send me away for a very long time. Becoming a ward of the state until the age of 21 is a possibility.. I think the best I can hope for is a month in rehab. I really need help. The worst part is I wasn't breaking any laws and I was on my way to school when all this happened. I need pro bono representation and any legal help I can get. At this point I'm not even sure what the courts can do to me.

All this was legal because I was entering a school-like facility and it was for safety reasons. However a pat down did not give them probable cause to search me further and I never refused scanning my bag and pockets with a metal detector. This program is also not doing what it should be doing as it is picking up kids who are late to school and keeping them in truancy centers until their parents get them. Some miss the entire day.

My court date is scheduled for the March 14th, 2001. Criminal possesion in a school zone and disorderly conduct. The superintendents hearing(concerning possible expulsion) is on March 13th.

--Sapphyre187@aol.com

KingAlf

Thats perhaps one of the worst stories i have heard... made me mad just reading it... Damn cops and their intimidation. Worst part is the police station will probably never have to answer about their actions...

mattrane

That really sucks man. I would strongly suggest hiring a good lawyer. Unfortunately, these kind of drug charges will stick with you for a long time, unless your lawyer can find a way out of them. It sounds like there were quite a few illegal and unethical practices by the NYPD and the DA. If you can prove it, or your lawyer can, those charges should most likely be dropped. As for the school, I don't know what to say. If you had the drugs on campus, that you can probably expect a long suspension or expulsion. Schools these days are very tough on drugs, for good reason I believe. Make sure your lawyer is present at the school hearing also. If I were you, I would not get a public attorney. Go to NORML.org and look at the list of lawyers in NY that specialize in marijuana/drug convictions. From it sounds, this could be a fairly long and demanding law suit. You may even have enough reason to file a counter civil law suit against the NYPD. Good luck man and keep us posted. We're rooting for you!
Mattrane

Niteshift

First, this whole thing is totally unverified.

Second, much of what the author considers a violation of his rights is, in fact, not a violation and completely legal. I'm sure his attorney will give him a quick lesson.

Personally, I think it's simply a piece of creative writing coupled with a poor understanding of the law.

Slightly Stoopid

It does sound like a piece of "Creative Writing". It just sounds way to harsh of an incident for being late to school, everyone is late to school. In fact i don't think it is a crime to be late to school, mark that i know it isn't illegal. at least not here in missouri!

Then if it is in fact a true story, the kid isn't in trouble. If he gets himself any type of lawyar he will get off! No doubt, mostly because the incident with his miranda rights, and the fact they wouldn't let him talk to a lawyor. It sounds messed up, it really does sound like his rights were tossed in the Sh!ter!

Niteshift

SS:

I appreciate the vote of confidence. The Miranda thing, however, is one of the things I am referring to when I say that the writer is mistaken about his rights.

You can be arrested without being read your rights. Miranda only applies to custodial interrogation. If the things were done in the chronological order that the writer presented them, he was Mirandized, then questioned.

There are a few other glaring errors in the authors version.

I also doubt the suggested civil suit would go far. I didn't see much in there that would give rise to a civil action.

Slightly Stoopid

I just said the Miranda rights thing, cause i know someone that got out of a fairly big possesion charge, because the police simply forgot to give him his rights. He mentioned it to his lawyor, and from there it sounded like he got away with it, though he did end up facing a fine.

__________________
Slightly Stoopid
"Before you knock it, try it first. You will learn that it is a blessing and not a curse"
-Ben Harper

jsmoney

I couldn't afford a lawyer in my marijuana case, I even looked up one those lawyers at NORML.org and the lawyer offered to do my case for only $2500 (which is a real bargain considering a lot of lawyers want $7500 - $10000 to do a lot of cases). I could not afford the $2500 so I went with one of the public defenders and he tricked into signing some **** giving away some of my rights. I think the public defender did more damage against me than he helped. I think anyone in that situation would be better off reading up on the law and representing themselves.

If I knew as much about the law back then as I know now I never would have gotten in trouble. My rights were violated by detectives, police, and even the public defender violated them. So I think it is important that everyone knows their rights because if you don't know them, they won't give you them.

Someone told me that if you can't afford a lawyer you should request a "legal defender" which is supposed to be much better than a "public defender" but i do not know what the difference is. Does anybody know?

neuw

Something very bad also happened to me involving Law Enforcement. The story is going to be a little vague as I think it would be prudent for me not to go into details because two other people are currently being charged with felonies.

A few nights ago I was dropping someone off when a police officer approached my car as I was about to drive off and asked me what I was doing there. I replied that I was dropping someone off and he replied "You all aren't f*cking welcome here anymore". He told me not to drive off. I asked him what the problem was and he told me to shut up as he continued using his flashlight to look inside my vehicle. After not being able to see anything inside my car he asked me to step out and patted me down - he didn't find anything again. I asked him why he was patting me down, he didn't reply.

The next string of events I can't really get into but two of my friends got arrested (for marijuana possession) after being searched. He cuffed one of us and told the other two to lie face down on the street with our hands behind our heads and hour legs crossed.

At this point I asked whether I was under arrest - he replied with a "Yes". When I asked why he simply laughed and said "you're asking why?".

The officer called for backup and two squad cars arrived at the scene. A senior officer grabbed me by my shirt and threw my upper body onto the hood of his car and made me spread my legs. He then cuffed me. The officer asked me my name and where I was from. I answered his question. He then proceeded to ask me some more questions about the marijuana which I didn't reply to. At this point the officer got mad and said "Can't you hear me boy? I'm asking you a question" I simply stared at him like a mute and then he said "You think you're a tough guy, huh? You're not a tough guy, you're nothing but a f*cking punk!". He told me to cooperate with him and I could drive my car home tonight. He then told me if I didn't cooperate with him that they would seize my car "It would make a nice squad car" he told his colleague (laughing). At this point I got scared and asked to see a lawyer - he laughed at me and asked "You have a lawyer?". I asked him to provide me with one and he laughed at me again. After a 10 minutes he took me to the back and confessed that he didn't have anything to arrest me. He told me if I called my mother to come pick up her car that I'd be free to go. Since I didn't trust him I figured he'd try to use my mother to pressure me into talking so I stayed quiet again. He now got really mad and told his subordinate to book me. I said "For what!?!" and he said for Public Intoxication with a laughter. I want to point out that I **TRULY** was **NOT** intoxicated **AT ALL**. He went to my car and grabbed my cell phone to call my mother anyway but he could not reach her. I told him not to touch my cell phone and he told me to shut up. I ended up spending 8 hours in detox and they towed my car - I also lost my job because i was in detox instead of opening the store I work at, not to mention the $305 fine they gave me for public intox.

The other two people were taken to jail. They both face felony charges right now. This entire ordeal was about 30-45 minutes long. I was never read my Miranda rights to this day. I have contacted a lawyer to fight the public intox charge which is only a class C misdemeanor (I'm fighting this charge because I truly was not intoxicated - otherwise I'd just pay the fine). Luckily I am 18 years old and able to handle this on my own - my parents never found out about this to this day.

Niteshift

jsmoney:

There is no difference. Public defenders are attorneys. They are paid for by tax dollars.

One thing not everyone knows..........you don't automaticly get a free attorney. You apply and they have you fill out financial affidavits. If you make/have too much money, you won't get one for free. You might get one at a reduced rate or not at all.

neuw:

I'm not going to go into all of your post, but there are 2 things I'd like to point out:

1) Them not reading you miranda is probably not important. The only thing that will do is suppress any responses you gave while being interrogated in custody. You can be arrested, convicted and sentenced without ever hearing miranda read to you.

2) Your right to an attorney applies to before questioning or trial. It does not apply to at the scene. They can simply not question you (or not worry about using your reply as evidence). They do not have to produce one at the scene, or let you call one from the scene.