Marijuana.com

Brainrape

If possible I'd greatly appreciate some answers from LEO's in regards to undercover people...

To begin, a close friend of mine was recently caught with a smal amount of something and another drug which is not yet illegal, but a potent hallucinogenic, during his arrest an intresting thing happened, he was led to a room...

There he was approached by a man in a mask, this man was an undercover officer, my friend was questioned about the new "drug", then at this point, presented with 3 choices and they would "do something" about his situation...

1. Sell drugs for the police...
2. Become a Narc for them.
3. Introduce an undercover officer into the scene...

All 3 seem oddly chilling to me, as his facing a felony is a damper, but it is his first arrest so he's declining to do anything....

My questions are:

Would he be advised to get a lawyer to deal with this situation, is it possible the cops could be lying about some sort of celemcy?

If this Man in the Mask were identifed by a person approached by him, and exposed, is this a crime as well?

Is it possible that a total removal of charges possible if he were to agree to any of the conditions?

If he were asked to sell for the cops, then could he do drugs as well as part of his "undercover" operation?

>>Moderator Note: The question was removed due to the simple fact that it does not matter what the answer is...Marijuana.com can not endorse even the suggestion that a dangerous drug be slipped to someone just to find out whether or not they are a cop.<<


Any answers to these questions would be VERY greatfully appreciated, thank you.

 

Dakrath

Get a lawyer see what you can do man.

Don't join them. To do so is to become the lowest form of crud that I wipe off my boot after walking through a rat infested, poorly lit alley at 03:00.

Good luck.

Randøm_

"Would he be advised to get a lawyer to deal with this situation, is it possible the cops could be lying about some sort of celemcy?"
Immediately, retain a lawyer. Cops do lie, and any conversation regarding the possibilities will be used to incriminate your friend. Only trust what is on paper and signed by the DA. Give me your state and I'll tell ya if there are first time-offense diversionary programs (probation then the record expunged upon completion of probation). I, personally, will tell ya that if your friend sells his honor, he is no longer one of "us" but one of "them". I shutter at the thought. Plus, being a civy narc, he's more likely to end up a junkie or in a ditch, having no legal protection what-so-ever.

"If this Man in the Mask were identifed by a person approached by him, and exposed, is this a crime as well?"
As much as I loathe this answer ... it is a misdemeanor, and if harm befalls the cop, a felony.

"Is it possible that a total removal of charges possible if he were to agree to any of the conditions?"
Yes, but trust NOTHING unless it has a signature of a judge, DA, or someone other than just a cop (remeber, they lie!). I'm being honest with ya, but it churns my stomach.

"If he were asked to sell for the cops, then could he do drugs as well as part of his "undercover" operation?"
Most likely, but he can also get a bullet in his head, and risks becoming a junkie (I've seen that happen).

Absolutely get a lawyer before any further discussions, even discussing it will be used as evidence. If there are diversions for 1st time drug felons in your state, then all this is over nothing. Fight the good fight and do so admirably. Sell out and I'll feel no remorse for what horrors befall your friend.

Niteshift

""If he were asked to sell for the cops, then could he do drugs as well as part of his "undercover" operation?"
Most likely"

The answer is no in most agencies for most investigations.

Brainrape

To The Moderators: Sorry, won't mention any other drugs on this board, excpet good ole' marijauna, as my last post was editied a bit....

Yeah, I advised him to get a lawyer before any talking, this being his first charge, he's not too worried and won't bargain anyways, I was just curoious, to bad it had to happne to him....

I greatly appreciate the answers...

 

iMac Bondi Bong

If possession of the "new" drug in question is not illegal under federal, state or local laws, why are the police wanting to set up a sting operation? How can law enforcement make arrests and possibly charge people for possession or sale of a drug which isn't governed by law? Seems to me, in the case of the "new" drug, they are wasting their efforts — can't get a conviction if there is no crime...

Cheers!

Niteshift

"How can law enforcement make arrests and possibly charge people for possession or sale of a drug which isn't governed by law?"

This is the law in my state regarding "new" drugs. Many states have similar laws:

893.0356 Control of new substances; findings of fact; "controlled substance analog" defined.--

(1)(a) New substances are being created which are not controlled under the provisions of this chapter but which have a potential for abuse similar to or greater than that for substances controlled under this chapter. These new substances are called "controlled substance analogs," and can be designed to produce a desired pharmacological effect and to evade the controlling statutory provisions. Controlled substance analogs are being manufactured, distributed, possessed, and used as substitutes for controlled substances.

(b) The hazards attributable to the traffic in and use of controlled substance analogs are increased because their unregulated manufacture produces variations in purity and concentration.

(c) Many such new substances are untested, and it cannot be immediately determined whether they have useful medical or chemical purposes.

(d) The uncontrolled importation, manufacture, distribution, possession, or use of controlled substance analogs has a substantial and detrimental impact on the health and safety of the people of Florida.

(e) Controlled substance analogs can be created more rapidly than they can be identified and controlled by action of the Legislature. There is a need for a speedy determination of their proper classification under this chapter. It is therefore necessary to identify and classify new substances that have a potential for abuse, so that they can be controlled in the same manner as other substances currently controlled under this chapter.

(2)(a) As used in this section, "controlled substance analog" means a substance which, due to its chemical structure and potential for abuse, meets the following criteria:

1. Is substantially similar to that of a controlled substance listed in Schedule I or Schedule II of s. 893.03; and

2. Has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system or is represented or intended to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system substantially similar to or greater than that of a controlled substance listed in Schedule I or Schedule II of s. 893.03.

(b) "Controlled substance analog" does not include:

1. A controlled substance;

2. Any substance for which there is an approved new drug application;

3. Any compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any controlled substance which is not for administration to a human being or animal, and which is packaged in such form or concentration, or with adulterants or denaturants, so that as packaged it does not present any significant potential for abuse; or

4. Any substance to which an investigational exemption applies under s. 505 of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, 21 U.S.C. 355, but only to the extent that conduct with respect to the substance is pursuant to such exemption.

(3) The term "potential for abuse" in this section means that a substance has properties as a central nervous system stimulant or depressant or a hallucinogen that create a substantial likelihood of its being:

(a) Used in amounts that create a hazard to the user's health or the safety of the community;

(b) Diverted from legal channels and distributed through illegal channels; or

(c) Taken on the user's own initiative rather than on the basis of professional medical advice.

Proof of potential for abuse can be based upon a showing that these activities are already taking place, or upon a showing that the nature and properties of the substance make it reasonable to assume that there is a substantial likelihood that such activities will take place, in other than isolated or occasional instances.

(4) The following factors shall be relevant to a finding that a substance is a controlled substance analog within the purview of this section:

(a) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.

(b) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect, if known.

(c) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the substance.

(d) Its history and current pattern of abuse.

(e) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.

(f) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.

(g) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.

(h) Its diversion from legitimate channels, and clandestine importation, manufacture, or distribution.

(i) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance already controlled under this chapter.

(5) A controlled substance analog shall, for purposes of drug abuse prevention and control, be treated as a controlled substance in Schedule I of s. 893.03.

(6) In construing this section, due consideration and great weight should be given to interpretations of the United States Attorney General and the federal courts relating to s. 201 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970, 21 U.S.C. s. 811, as amended and in effect on April 1, 1985. New substances controlled under this section shall not be treated in a manner inconsistent with the rules of the United States Attorney General and the decisions of the federal courts interpreting the provisions of s. 201 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970, 21 U.S.C. s. 811, as amended and in effect on April 1, 1985.

(7) The treatment of a new substance as a controlled substance pursuant to this section shall not affect prosecution or punishment for any crime previously committed with respect to that substance.


In other words, if it looks like a drug, acts like a drug and works like a drug, it's a drug.

iMac Bondi Bong

Yes, but…(there is always a but…)

Who determines the factors listed? Is law enforcement qualified to determine the "controlled substance analog" drugs? Isn't it up to the biomedical community to have some input? It often takes years of clinical research/toxicology studies to determine a lot of those factors listed, but law enforcement is able to "classify" those substances on their own without using clinical trials? Look at any of the Merck Indexes and you'll see my point...

Cheers!

willy

Has anyone arrested a person under the conditions of this law?

What was the disposition?

Thanks

Niteshift

There is a couple of ways to pull it off.

The way I've seen used is to either take the info (and drug) and get the Attorney General's office to do the declaration os a drug. Then I get a warrant to pick them up. Or, if it's serious enough......wake someone up.

Yes, people have been arrested on it. It was concieved several years ago because of a designer drug problem we were having.