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A few more questions in regards to phone taps...

In general how muhc does it take to get a phone tap...is it usually only the big mafia style dealers, or is it anyone who has drugs come in and out of thier house? In your general experience who normally does?

Also, if you change your phone number, or move altogether, do they need anohter court order to tap that phone line?

And what over the phone constitutes breaking the law (this may be too broad), but if say a pot deal were to be made over the phone, but with no prices mentioned and code words used...is that sufficent enough to be used against you?

Example: "Hey, is Bud in town right now?
Yeah, he's over here right now...
Cool, we'll I'll stop by in a few minutes to
see him"

Something like that, is that sufficent enough to skirt the legalities of discussing drugs over the phone, thanks in advance for any answrs...

 

Ganjx

as i understand it you can dance around a drug deal with code words all day long and you wont get pinched. however, if you allow them to become 'hip to your lingo' you might f*ck up and incriminate yourself. the smart thing to do is to keep your mouth shut over the phone. although this will be tough given the fact that phones are for talking. HAHA!! lil joke. anyway if you feel you must do business on the dime, keep it light and not too out of character. avoid being repetitive. (ie: "is bud home, is bud home, wheres bud, anyone seen bud?) it's pretty obvious.
try something like: have you read the new issue of People Magazine? (do you have any weed?) No im busy reading Time Magazine (no but ill have some soon.) but like i said the best way to do business is in person, or on a pager. 420*911!!!!!

Niteshift

"how muhc does it take to get a phone tap...is it usually only the big mafia style dealers, or is it anyone who has drugs come in and out of thier house? In your general experience who normally does?"

The majority of courts are actually pretty reluctant to issue orders for wiretaps. Usually, we'd have to show the normal probable cause we have to for any warrant, plus we usually have to show that the info can't be obtained by other means.

"if you change your phone number, or move altogether, do they need anohter court order to tap that phone line?"

No. The order is to tap the phone you use, not a specific phone number. If you have 2 lines in your house, we'd normally tap both etc.

Further, the tap isn't actually placed in your phone or anywhere around your home for that matter.

"say a pot deal were to be made over the phone, but with no prices mentioned and code words used...is that sufficent enough to be used against you?"

That really depends. If we can show that a term can mean nothing else, then code words don't work. For example, if you said "I'll bring the 6 saxaphones you ordered tonight", then we follow you to a deal and you deliver 6 pounds of pot, there is no other logical conclusion except that saxaphones are really a pound of weed.

Also, logical inference can be used. If you say "Did you get the teacups", and the other guy says yes, then you ask "Did you get bullets for the teacups?", the logical inference is that a teacup is a gun.

Also, the conversation can become evidence after the fact. If you talk around a deal and we later arrest you during the deal (or after, whatever), we can show that the conversation, although meaningless to us at the time, was actually the deal being set up.

Lastly, there is simple experience. If I have worked cases before where a pound of pot was called "a bag of cookies" in your area, especially by you or your associates, it is not unreasonable for me to presume that when you tell a guy calls you and asks you for a "bag of cookies" that he's not mistaking you for Mrs. Fields.

Hint: Bud, 420, any common slang............dead giveaway.

"as i understand it you can dance around a drug deal with code words all day long and you wont get pinched."

See above.

Ganjx

yup i did say that...but i went on to say...

"keep it light and not too out of character. avoid being repetitive. (ie: "is bud home, is bud home, wheres bud, anyone seen bud?) it's pretty obvious."

.........

Originally posted by Niteshift
Further, the tap isn't actually placed in your phone or anywhere around your home for that matter.

I know--way back when I was an amateur telephone hobbyist we used to attempt to gain access to REMOBS. Here's a small paragraph I found for general information:


Also, logical inference can be used. If you say "Did you get the teacups", and the other guy says yes, then you ask "Did you get bullets for the teacups?", the logical inference is that a teacup is a gun.

This would be monumentally stupid. One should say "Did you get the tea?"

Also, the conversation can become evidence after the fact. If you talk around a deal and we later arrest you during the deal (or after, whatever), we can show that the conversation, although meaningless to us at the time, was actually the deal being set up.

I see tremendous potential for abuse by law enforcement if this is true. Are you saying I could be having a conversation about ANYTHING and then just because a deal followed it you can say it was actually a discussion about the deal? I certainly hope you mean that you have to show a connection in the context of all your evidence and that you cannot use the "after the fact" evidence as PC (which, of course, would be circular).

Regards,
-1

 

Niteshift

"This would be monumentally stupid. One should say "Did you get the tea?"

I was using it as a simplified example.

"I see tremendous potential for abuse by law enforcement if this is true. Are you saying I could be having a conversation about ANYTHING and then just because a deal followed it you can say it was actually a discussion about the deal?"

No, I didn't say anything of the sort.

"I certainly hope you mean that you have to show a connection in the context of all your evidence and that you cannot use the "after the fact" evidence as PC "

That's what I said.

RIP JMorrison

Ok, is there really a need for a warrent to tap?

I mean here is what I am thinking:

Cops tap my phone, without a warrent.

They hear me say "Ok meet me at the corner with a 20 sack"

So the cops go near the spot and see me buy the weed, then pull me over and arrest me. Saying they saw me buying the weed.

They don't need to use the tap as evidence in court do they?

I'm in a hurry so some of this may sound stupid. I'll edit later.

__________________
There are things known and there are things unknown and in between are the Doors - Jim Morrison

9-11-01

Niteshift

If they get caught tapping without the warrant, they risk going to jail.

Personally, there isn't a load of any drug big enough for me to get killed over or go to jail over. Work safe, work smart.

__________________
A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about. -Thomas Sowell

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

elixir420

Most scanners available to public now have something built in where they can all scan through a certain range of frequencies and not those of cellphones, portable phones, etc.

.........

Scanners without the blackout of frequency ranges can be easily had by ordering from Canada.

Regards,
-1