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bmhessl

My friend had a seizure in his dorm room (college). The EMT's and the cops came to make sure he was ok and take him to the hospital. As he was leaving he needed to put on a shirt before leaving and my friend was unable to respond after the seizure so the EMT's pulled out a drawer to get his shirt. Unfortunately the EMT's opened the drawer and there was individually wrapped grams in his drawer with probably around 20 grams in there and the cops saw it in the drawer. Can he get charged with a felony for intent to sell even though the mj was not in plain view and it wasnt a valid seizure? Any information would be great.

 

dedbr

I think the Judge will allow it on the grounds of the cops were there to assist and the finding of the drugs was accidental.

Never pre-package. That's just dumb.......


Some Where In Ded Land...........

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phuzz01

Dedbr is correct. The opening of the drawer falls under the community caretaking exception to the search warrant requirement. The discovery of drugs was not part of a search for contraband, but rather was inadvertent. It will probably be admissable.

peace n love

Man, that sucks ass. Tell your friend to fucking forget about shirts from now on.

Triklino

Wait, so he kept his weed in his SHIRT drawer? So his shirts could smell like weed? Doesn't sound smart to me. Best of luck to your friend though, I don't know anything about the law, but I'm thinking that they CAN change him for it, even though it was an accidental discovery, it's still 20 grams of illegal drugs. I can't see them turning a blind eye to that.

Edit: But if they do, I'm sure he'll remember to hide his weed a little better

 

bmhessl

No he kept the bud in his top drawer (not where the shirts were at)and the EMT's were looking for a shirt for him to put on so they can take him to the hospital. Turns out they opened up the drawer saw the weed closed it, cops saw it and confiscated it, then the EMT's just took a dirty shirt clearly in plain view on the ground for him to wear.

Sec

Who called the EMS? IF Mr. Seizure had a friend present, then that person should have been the one the EMT asked to obtain clothing for your friend.

Speaking with some experience in EMS, I never look through bedroom drawers, closets, etc... for clothing; that is why we carry extra blankets. I will open the refrigerator, kitchen cupboard, bathroom storage or the nightstand looking for prescriptions or OTC meds, but not in the dressers. For one thing, I don't have time, for another, it isn't my business or safe. The EMS should have asked a family member or friend who was present to get clothing for the patient if they felt it was absolutely necessary for him to be fully clothed. If no family or friend is present, then they should have asked the patient himself or if the patient is unable, the police can be asked.

One thing confuses me though:

You state your friend was unable to respond. So now the ambulance personnel have an unresponsive patient (high transport priority) who has reportedly suffered a seizure (another high transport priority), and their main concern is clothing for this person??? This doesn't make sense.

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BartSimpson

Come on, Sec - a Postictal state is never a high transport priority, especially with a known history of seizure and existing use (or non-use) of meds. And since when is a seizure itself a high transport priority outside of Status Eplilepsis.

Seizures are dramatic and scary for the average Joe to observe, but a single episode does not amount to a life-threatening situation requiring priority. The patient will be out of the ER before the EMT's get done changing the sheets on the gurney. And is going to need a shirt. The situation makes complete sense to me.

I've responded to thousands of seizures in my 20 years as a firefighter/paramedic (now retired), only once to a Status Epilepsis (a pregnant woman - it was very sad).

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Sec

The report was a seizure, The EMS personnel couldn't be sure what the cause of the situation was. I didn't read in the OP where there was a known history of seizure or drug/medication use. Could have been an OD, could be almost anything other than your normal, everyday run of the mill seizure. The OP stated the patient was unresponsive when they started to transport, which, regardless of the reason, is a high transport priority, and shouldn't cause the EMS people to take the time to first properly dress the patient in clean clothing before loading. IF the patient was still unresponsive when EMS was ready to load, then this indicates a more serious episode than your run of the mill 3-4 minute seizure episode.

At least that is what the protocols in my organization state, of course we are a BLS squad, not paramedics. We must call paramedics to intercept for any altered mental state case.

BartSimpson

First and foremost - I applaud you for your EMS work, and if it is with a rural volunteer unit that you serve, you are a real hero in my book.

Ah, the old "only a Doctor can diagnose" thingy - most seizures are idiopathic but the causation is limited to 9 general reasons; alcohol, epilepsy, diabetes, overdose, underdose, trauma, infection, psychological and shock. A first responder can make a differential diagnosis in about 30 seconds on this scene by observation and investigation. It was a very routine call for a BLS unit in my opinion.

But the first responder can establish this fairly quickly on-scene - granted, we have no clear history in the OP, and we are also dealing with a civilian's report of the circumstances without regard to what you and I consider in orientation and consciousness (oriented to person, place, time and purpose), but when I hear hoof-beats, I am going to assume it is horses and not zebras.

The principle reason for seizures in young adults is the failure to take anti-seizure medication (that patient goes an extended period without a seizure and figures it is no longer a problem). What's the first question you are going to ask the patient?

The OP did not state unconscious, and unresponsiveness is expected in the Postictal state - only the fakers will promptly regain responsiveness - and the average Postictal period is 10 to 20 minutes after a tonic-clonic episode (in the old days we called it a Grand Mal seizure). And I could find a t-shirt faster than you can take vitals, with no impact on patient care.

If the patient was unconscious I would agree, but unresponsive is something completely different and expected with the Postictal state.

In my State, protocols dictate that if the person is known to have a history of seizures, it is not usually necessary to even transport and we simply recommend that they see their Doctor. However, if the person is not known to have a history of seizures, or the seizure lasts four to five minutes or longer, or the person has a second seizure before regaining consciousness, or the person injures themselves or stops breathing during or after the seizure, further medical attention is needed.

Otherwise this was not an emergency, ALS or BLS - and grabbing a shirt for the patient was not unusual. You do make a point about searching through personal property - my Department required that we always have an independent witness to avoid accusations of theft - we were not allowed to go through a wallet without someone else present.