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Andrew87

Without thorough examination of every social and psychological intricacy, you're correct, it is impossible to pinpoint exactly who has the most stressful life. But generally speaking - I think it'd be far more reasonable and sensible to pick the soldier, sailor, airman, or marine that is literally fighting for his/her life as opposed to the college student who is concerned of matters which are inconsequential in comparison.

I already mentioned that there are certainly some civilians who have more stressful lives than military personnel, but they are the exception, not the rule. Also, most people who get emotionally riled up easily are afraid of guns, and would likely not have one anyways.

I think the vast majority of gun owners are FAR more level-headed about using our weapons than much of society gives us credit for.


First things first: You are ignoring the fact that someone who chooses to commit a massacre will very likely be deterred from attempting to carry it out at an armed campus in the first place due to the fact that they would be shooting at people who are equally equipped.

Second, I'm not sure why you allege that people (especially ones who carry a gun) become disoriented so easily - I know I sure don't. Additionally, I would fully support further training for students who wish to carry on campus - so that they are adequately prepared in an event like one you describe.

Fair enough - I thank him for his service.

This argument was more strongly supported by circa - my rebuttal of this point was directed more towards s/he.

Re-read the article at the very beginning of this thread. "It is not about playing hero, or replacing police officers - it is about self-defense."

As for your other point - see my response to your second quote in this post.

I am in school.

I never said that you or other students don't worry about other things than school, just that there isn't much important enough to cause someone to break down and start shooting in every direction - and that as seemingly important as the average college student's issues may be, someone else has it far, far worse and they don't react so impulsively.

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"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." -- Ron Paul

"One person's 'schizophrenia' is another's revelation." -- Peter Breggin, M.D.

 

Halcyon

You mean you in favor of me having my USP strapped to my thigh and my M4 with a combat sling on my shoulder when I go grocery shopping?!

Excellent!

BigGun1

As long as your not a convicted felon I have absolutely no problem with it. You have however obviously taken what I said out of context with what I meant in order to stir up an argument. What I meant was that if I am legally permitted to carry a concealed handgun then I believe that I should be able to carry it anywhere I go, as has been said before in this thread; any place that is a known "gun free zone" is just asking for trouble, weather it be a campus, business or whatever.

Halcyon

So you accuse me of taking what you said out of context and trying to start an argument. Great.
It was a joke obviously. I dont appreciate your tone. Even when ou have a concealed weapon license you are only permitted to carry it where you stated in your application you needed to use it. There are different licenses. Im ex military and applied for a concealed weapon in NY. Its not easy to get one. Furthermore they wouldn't let student carry guns anyway. You think we are allowed guns onto planes? No they have sky-martials for that. All they would do is have armed guards in the schools. Is that what you want? They already patrol the school grounds and Ive heard they put up fences to prevent kids from "escaping". What does that sound like to you?

Andrew87

Halcyon, judging by your last post, I don't think you're on the same page as the rest of us - given the fact that you brought up several matters that lead me to believe you have skipped over a good portion of the discussion.

For example:

The stipulations vary significantly from state to state - generally speaking, your statement is untrue.

You obviously missed the link I posted a couple pages back - there are in fact schools which allow students to carry a concealed weapon (Utah).

This I will agree with, I don't see a need for concealed carry on airplanes. But should the pilots be armed? I say without question.

I've never heard of anything like this - especially not at a college/university (the venues which are the focus of discussion - no one is proposing we allow concealed carry in middle or high schools).


My advice: Read the rest of the thread, then get back to us.

 

BigGun1

Halcyon, I'm soon to be ex-military as well. As soon as I return to my home state of MN I intend on getting a concealed carry permit, I'll also be going back to college. My point is that I should be allowed to carry it to class if I want to, however the way it is right now I can't even take it and leave it the vehicle out in the parking lot because it's on school property.

Freedom_User

I am back from being a bad boy!

So, I have been gone for awhile, and made me think about this whole gun control thing in multiple ways. On 4/20 I came through with a breakthrough... But, I was stoned and forgot.

Anyways. Here goes... I think this is fair.

I really like that saying, 'guns don't kill people... people kill people.' It's not the people who carry there guns proudly... It's the people who will use this weapon for harm. I feel that, if someone didn't have a gun, they would have made up there mind on killing a man/woman with whatever tool they have. When you have a gun, you have a choice.. To pull the trigger, or not pull the trigger. I am still kinda iffy about guns in class. A big part of me says, it's okay. For one, it is concealed, and in case of a tragedy, he/she will not only be protecting him/herself but the rest of the classmates.

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Halcyon

I stand corrected Andrew. I appreciate the manner in which you replied. Its true I didnt read the whole thing. I also sometimes forget that the states isnt governed by the UCMJ and each state has their own laws despite what the federal laws say.

Maybe the flight attendants should carry guns!
(A JOKE BigGun1)

Subversive

Sorry if these points have already been made, but this is the way I see it:

In the case of students/faculty under attack from an armed individual, it would be beneficial for them to be armed, and thus able to halt the attacker. I think the reasoning behind that is pretty clear, and there's not much to be argued when discussing that scenario.

However, in the context of everyday campus life, I think the wide distribution of weapons among individuals would cause more harm than good. Most people would likely be able to handle carrying a weapon in a responsible manner, but among any large group there would be exceptions. Inevitably, some people act out in stupid ways when in particularly emotive situations. Having a gun close at hand increases the likelihood of a rash action becoming more harmful or even fatal. While I would trust myself and many other people I know with a gun, there are many I would certainly not want to be around if I knew they were armed.