EntheogeniCTHC

This is so funny he was actually just messing with us and everybody was just freaking out (i know i was, i was starting to get really mad man)

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“Approximately 400,000 people die each year from tobacco. Approximately 150,000 people die each year from alcohol. Approximately 10,000 people die each year from caffeine and aspirin. Yet only 4,000 people die each year from all illegal drugs combined, and not a single one of those deaths is caused by marijuana.” U.S. Surgeon General’s reports 1978-1998

Soda

Yes, everyone who replied in anger is hereby shamed.

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Alas! the forbidden fruits were eaten,
And thereby the warm life of reason congealed.
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam,
Like as the Dragon's tail dulls the brightness of the moon.

— Rumi: Masnavi I Ma'navi

HappyMan

On further thought let me attack this.

There are over 10,000 scientific studies that prove marijuana is a harmful addictive drug. There is not one reliable study that demonstrates marijuana has any medical value.

There is no such thing as scientific proof. Merely theories that are supported, discredit, ridiculed, but never "proved". 10,000 scientific studies, means nothing, here is why. Answer the following questions.
Who wrote them? How were they funded, When, Where? Without those you point is meaningless. A scientific study is only as creditible as those people who prodiced it.


Marijuana is an unstable mixture of more than 425 chemicals that convert to thousands when smoked. Many of these chemicals are toxic, psychoactive chemicals which are largely unstudied and appear in uncontrolled strengths.

People have been smoking pot for 1,000 of years. If it posed a significant problem we would have learned not to smoke. Much like we have learned to be careful with mushrooms and not eat things like hemlock.



The harmful consequences of smoking marijuana include, but are not limited to the following: premature cancer, addiction, coordination and perception impairment, a number of mental disorders including depression, hostility and increased aggresiveness, general apathy, memory loss, reproductive disabilities, and impairment to the immune system.


Not only are some of those untrue. They are also irrelevant. None of those are reasons for prohibitions. They are reasons not to smoke, but only a poor and easily countered argument for it. Hell I will kill me self with Doritos and Big Macs before Pot. Just think about the cost to society that heart disease brings.


The Food and Drug Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Public Health Service have rejected smoking crude marijuana as a medicine. Medical marijuana has been promoted for "compassionate use" to assist people with cancer, AIDS and glaucoma. Scientific studies show the opposite is true; marijuana is damaging to individuals with these illnesses. In fact, people suffering with AIDS and glaucoma are being used unfairly by groups whose real agenda is to legalize marijuana.


Your citing an orginization, the Federal Goverment, who by policy enforces prohibition? Thats not creditable information. Nor is another vauge reference from unamed "scientic studies." Were these funded by the DEA? if so they are biased.



AIDS: Scientific studies indicate marijuana damages the immune system, causing further peril to already weakened immune systems. HIV-positive marijuana smokers progress to full-blown AIDS twice as fast as non-smokers and have an increased incidence of bacterial pneumonia.

That maybe true. But I don't have AIDS; I live a modest life so I probably won't get AIDS. Most people don't have AIDS either. What kind of people do you think we are? Your point is only a reason to discourage someone with AIDS from smoking. It is by no means a reason for general prohibition.



Cancer: Marijuana contains many cancer-causing substances, many of which are present in higher concentrations in marijuana than in tobacco.

Tabacco is legal. However I should point that people who smoke marijuana smoke less in actual product
than smokers of tobbaco.

Glaucoma: Marijuana does not prevent blindness due to glaucoma.

I'm not even sure that is ture, but so what?

Marijuana is currently up to 25 times more potent than it was in the 1960's, making the drug even more addictive.

Well, I'm pretty sure that has been discredited, and pretty widely understood as such. So your only making an ass of your self.

Americans take their medicine in pills, solutions, sprays, shots, drops, creams, and sometimes in suppositories, but never by smoking. No medicine prescribed for us today is smoked.

Incorrect, as someone in another post mentioned. Nublizers.

The main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, THC (Tetra Hydrocannibinol), is already legally available in pharmaceutical capsule form by prescription from medical doctors. This drug, Marinol, is less often prescribed because of the potential adverse effects, and there are more effective new medicines currently available.


Maybe so, but again so what. I smoke pot because I choose to. I enjoy being high and it is my right as an educated, hard working, honest person to choose that.

While a biomedical or casual relationship between marijuana and the use of hard drugs has not been established, the statistical association is quite convincing. 12 to 17 year-olds who smoke marijuana are 85 times more likely to use cocaine than those who do not. 60% of adolescents who use marijuana before age 15 will later use cocaine. These correlations are many times higher than the initial relationships found between smoking and lung cancer.


Stastics.....mmmm again. Who? How? Where? When....?
Citing vauge stastics is a pretty more way to argue.

Major medical and health organizations, as well as the vast majority of nationally recognized expert medical doctors, scientists and researchers, have concluded that smoking marijuana is not a safe and effective medicine. These organizations include: the American Medical Association, the American Cancer Society, National Sclerosis Association, the American Glaucoma Association, American Academy of Opthalmology, National Eye Institute, and the National Cancer Institute.


Many medical orginizations support Marijuana as a medicine.

In 1994, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that marijuana should remain a Schedule I drug: highly addictive with no medical usefulness. The court noted that the pro-marijuana physicians had relied on non-scientific evidence.

That's why pot is illeagal, not an arguement for continued prohibition.

Political Issues: The California and Arizona Ballot Initiatives.

California's Proposition 215, The Compassionate Use Act of 1996, states: "Section 11357 (criminal penalties), relating to the possession of marijuana, and Section 11358 (criminal penalties), relating to the cultivation of marijuana, shall not apply to a patient, or to a patient's primary caregiver, who possess or cultivates marijuana for the personal medical purposes of the patient upon the written or oral recommendation or approval of a physician."

What do you mean?


Arizona's Proposition 200, the Drug Medicalization, Prevention, and Control Act of 1996, states: "We must toughen Arizona's laws against violent criminals on drugs. Any person who commits a violent crime while under the influence of illegal drugs should serve 100% of his or her sentence with absolutely no early release." The proposition then goes on to say doctors may be permitted "to prescribe Schedule I controlled substances to treat a disease, or to relieve the pain and suffering of ."

Both of these ballot initiatives passed, with 56% support for Prop. 215 and 65% support for Prop. 200.





The language in these ballot initiatives for California and Arizona are so loosely worded that they basically legalize marijuana for everyone, sick or well, adult or child. Physicians will be able to legally dispense marijuana for migraines, depression or any other ailments.

Maybe, but that is something to be resolved by establishing precedent in the legal system. Certianly the law would be refinned as it is put in use.


Legalizing marijuana through the political process bypasses the safeguards established by the Food and Drug Administration to protect the public from dangerous or ineffective drugs. Every other prescribed drug must be tested according to scientifically rigorous protocols to ensure that it is safe and effective before it can be sold.


Indeed, but is that reason for it to be illgeal? Also, the political process is the way we do things in the country.....screw administrative safeguard.

The California ballot initiative will make marijuana available without a written prescription, bypassing all established medical guidelines for dispensing drugs. The Arizona ballot initiative will legalize all Schedule I drugs for medical use. Schedule I drugs are drugs that have a high potential for abuse and have no currently accepted medical use in treatment. Examples of Schedule I drugs are marijuana, LSD and heroin. Under Arizona's proposition all of these drugs would be essentially legalized for any so-called medical use.

I've lost you here.......

Both of these laws allow for the possession of marijuana for medicinal purposes, however, buying and selling marijuana will remain illegal.


What is the problem with that?


These ballot initiatives were passed through a major disinformation campaign financed by wealthy individuals from outside these states. The billionaire financier George Soros gave over half a million dollars to support these initiatives. Other significant contributors include George Zimmer, president and CEO of the Men's Warehouse clothing store chain, Peter Lewis of The Progressive Corporation Insurance company in Ohio, and John Sperling, CEO of the Apollo Group, a Phoenix holding company for numerous educational institutions.

Huh? What the hell? Disinformation? You’re accusing someone of spreading Disinformation? By citing unamed wealthy people you apear to be people's fear and distrust of the rich.
This doesn't realy even make sense, isn't the CEO of the Men's Warehouse a respectable person?

The true agenda for Prop. 215 and 200 is revealed when you examine the backers of these initiatives. The National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws (NORML), the Drug Policy Foundation and the Cannabis Buyers Club in San Francisco have spearheaded the passage of the propositions. The radical legalization agenda of these groups leaves little doubt about their broader goal to legalize marijuana and other drugs. As reported in High Times magazine, the director of NORML expressly stated that the medical use of marijuana is an interal part of the strategy to legalize marijuana. A former director of NORML told an Emory University audience that NORML would be using the issue of medicinal marijuana as a red herring to give marijuana a good name.

Of course? Social change can be brought about by the proper implimentation of strategy. Yes Medicinial Marjuana is a step toward full legalization. That's kind of the point.

Social and Cultural Issues:
The medical marijuana movement and its million dollar media campaign have helped contribute to the changing attitude among our youth that marijuana use is harmless. This softening in anti-drug attitudes among teens has led to a 140% increase in marijuana use among high school seniors from 94'-95'.
The pro-legalization organizations behind these ballot initiatives deny that there is a drug problem among our youth. As much as they seek to focus on people suffering with illnesses, we must keep the debate properly centered on the safety of our kids. In a time where drug use among kids has increased 78% in the last four years, this country cannot afford to undermine drug prevention efforts with these pro marijuana ballot initiatives.

You completely fail to prove that smoking pot is actually in any way a problem. Saying that a 140% increasing is negative only valid if you can prove smoking pot is bad. Which of course you can't do.

The strategy to link marijuana with current legal substances such as alcohol and tobacco is used regularly by the pro-legalization groups. The response to this argument is to state that current use among teens is 50% for alcohol, 34% for tobacco and 19% for marijuana. If we want to see marijuana use among youth equal to alcohol and tobacco, then we should go ahead and legalize marijuana.

A couple things with this one.
1. Do we live our adult lives by what is appropriate for the youth? Or do we gain adult privileges other than taxes and responsibility?

2.statistics

3. Teens can't legal drink or smoke tobacco, but they do.

4. Is it realy bad for an emotional healthy teen from a supportive family? Maybe the problem you associate with pot smoking are realy more complex social problems, want to talk about those?

Legalizing marijuana would add a third drug that combines some of the most serious risks of alcohol and tobacco. Marijuana offers both the intoxicating effects of alcohol and the long-term lung damage of tobacco.

Well, no, Marijuana does not offer the same intoxicating effect of alcohol, your wrong. As for Tobacco like lung damage, that is a person health concern. Also who smoke so much pot as to get cancer?

Tobacco companies similarly advertised cigarettes as medicinal until the Federal Trad Commision put a stop to it in 1955. Medicinal marijuana is the "Joe Camel" of the promarijuana lobby, since it is children, the first time users, who are most impressed by these erroneous health claims.

Quick possible, but tobacoo is not Marijuana. Children as for time users? What are you talking about?


I'm sure that this will get alot of you all heated up but let's try and keep this on an intelligent level please.

You've screwed the point on keeping this to an intelligent level. Unless of course you purposely being a fool.

Now convince me i'm wrong! [/quote]

HappyMan

[quote]Originally posted by STuckinFoned
[b]I was trying to play devils advocate by feeding you guys WOD propaganda to see the response somebody serious about being against legalization would get from this forum also so I could have some artillery on my side when i'm debating the issue FOR legalization with ignorant, holier than thou kind of people. Yes I used old data because these are the kind of out-dated facts that people still bring up. Oh well, looks like you were the only one who didn't get to hot and bothered by it

Cool, a good excuse for a outburst.....thank you.

Rennoch

i'll deal with the ones that weren't too well defended.

"Legalizing marijuana would add a third drug that combines some of the most serious risks of alcohol and tobacco. Marijuana offers both the intoxicating effects of alcohol and the long-term lung damage of tobacco."

1. as stated alcohol does not produce the same effects as C.sativa or C.indica, and recent studies (wapser phd social studies dept, UWI.) indicate that drivers under the influence of weed may be safer then alcoholics in the same situation.

2. the avg smoker (check the player's website, for crying out loud!) has an avg of 20-40 cigarettes per day. by that same token, the avg weed inbiber intakes 4-7 cigarettes worth (by weight) of weed per day. difference on caner causing agents by single dose is higher in weed, yes. but few, if any, tokers inbibe the same volume of carcinogens as smokers, unless they smoke as well.

3. many people insist on mentioning the "immune weakening" situaution. that report, last i heard, was debunked in the scientific community, because of improper testing techniques, and the lab tests that were done to clarify, used the HU-210 cannibis emulator, which is made form petrochemicals. don't know about you, but dumping million-year-old dead animals into my body isn't a great idea.

PotHeadForever

I stopped after I read the one about Pot Preventing Blindess.

I've never heard that, but I'm sure I haven't been around the game as long as many of you. What I do know is, it relaxes the eyes, keeping spasms away, and giving the person with Glaucoma, a more enjoyable death. (Harsh way to put it)

Legalpot4evre1

Marijuana isnt harmful dip**** god i hate when people say that pot is more dangerous than smoking...all i hear on tv is pot is bad for you blagh blah blah theres worse things called Heroin coke...things like that! for christ sakes pot is grown frm the earth nothign added but yet alcohol is made and tobacco is added to but thats legal? **** THAT

~Legalize Weed~

king cola

This site is nothing but history of marijuana, why it was used, etc.


http://www.tlmp.org/history_of_marijuana.html

413

Stucking Foned I think it's a success
Ive caught bit and peices over the past weeks, an I just love to read about people spout off about your original post...Fuggin Stoners
I'm gonna miss pokin' fun at John, John, and George Dubya

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"Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana in private for personal use."

Rugbee

You fail to realize that “Drug Addicts” treat marijuana just as they do any other Drug.
It doesn’t matter how safe or unsafe marijuana is to ones health. Well... It dose I’ll save it for latter…
If marijuana were to be made legal, our nation’s youth would drop out of high school in record-breaking numbers. Crime rate will rise. The Media will take advantage of marijuana being made legal by promoting Marijuana like it’s healthy then fail to point out the dangers of marijuana, not only health but also the Crime rate etc etc.
If I ever had to have an operation, I’d pray that the surgeon in charge of performing my operation wasn’t a stoner.