Marijuana.com

Rev0x

Where do you get that idea? I'm really interested.

 

Psycho Donkey

I have no idea how to do Italics so my responses will start with a -Then writing.

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There are over 10,000 scientific studies that prove marijuana is a harmful addictive drug. There is not one reliable study that demonstrates marijuana has any medical value.

-Marijuana is less addictive than tobbaco. This has been prooven because there is no nicotine or anything. There are many reliable studies that show marijuana have medicinal value for glaucoma, spasms and even helping ailing crack addicts get off of crack.

Marijuana is an unstable mixture of more than 425 chemicals that convert to thousands when smoked. Many of these chemicals are toxic, psychoactive chemicals which are largely unstudied and appear in uncontrolled strengths.

-Coffee has over 800 chemicals in it, including rat citrogens (sp?) but it is legal and many people drink this everyday.

The harmful consequences of smoking marijuana include, but are not limited to the following: premature cancer, addiction, coordination and perception impairment, a number of mental disorders including depression, hostility and increased aggresiveness, general apathy, memory loss, reproductive disabilities, and impairment to the immune system.

-Premature Cancer: Smoking any plant is harmful to your lungs, true marijuana has more tar in it but unless you are a heavy smoker who smokes about 7 joints a day you will not get lung cancer. Also THC has been prooven to be a bronchial dilator, kinda like a cough drop, opening the bronchial tubes and allowing you to breathe better.

-Coordination and perception impairment: This is somewhat true. While it does impair your driving it is no worse than driving under the influence of alchool and more driving accidents that have involved marijuana use has also been under the influence of alchool consumption.

-Memory Loss: This is a total myth. When you are high you will have some memory loss but after about 12 hours after the high is worn off there is no way that this will continue.

-Reproductive Disabilities: This was tested that used human tissue and used about 30 times the amount of canaboids that would be used to get high. So unless you are smoking 30x more than usual you will never have reproductive disabilities.

-Impairment to the Imune System: This was tested on animals and were given almost near lethal doses for this to be true (40, 000 times the normal amount of canaboids used to get high). In some tests with humans the Immune System has actually gone UP, yes up!


The Food and Drug Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Public Health Service have rejected smoking crude marijuana as a medicine. Medical marijuana has been promoted for "compassionate use" to assist people with cancer, AIDS and glaucoma. Scientific studies show the opposite is true; marijuana is damaging to individuals with these illnesses. In fact, people suffering with AIDS and glaucoma are being used unfairly by groups whose real agenda is to legalize marijuana.

AIDS: Scientific studies indicate marijuana damages the immune system, causing further peril to already weakened immune systems. HIV-positive marijuana smokers progress to full-blown AIDS twice as fast as non-smokers and have an increased incidence of bacterial pneumonia.

-Read Impairment and Imune System about 3 paragraphs up.

Cancer: Marijuana contains many cancer-causing substances, many of which are present in higher concentrations in marijuana than in tobacco.

-Yes, marijuana has more tar than tobacco but an average smoker smokes 14-20 cigarrettes a day. No marijuana smoker smokes 10-15 a day. The reason for marijuana use with cancer is the fact that it allows them to eat instead of vomiting, this is especially true if they are going for chemotherapy.

Glaucoma: Marijuana does not prevent blindness due to glaucoma.

-Nothing with prevent blindness but it will help to not lose more of your sight.

Marijuana is currently up to 25 times more potent than it was in the 1960's, making the drug even more addictive.

-This is a total myth. If marijuana were more potent today this would mean that it would be less harmful on the lungs because if it is more potent it will have more THC, THC goes to your bronchials and less smoke goes into your lungs.

Americans take their medicine in pills, solutions, sprays, shots, drops, creams, and sometimes in suppositories, but never by smoking. No medicine prescribed for us today is smoked.

-True, but marijuana can be formed as a capsule form, food and vaporized. There is better ways than smoking it but this is what is most used.

The main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, THC (Tetra Hydrocannibinol), is already legally available in pharmaceutical capsule form by prescription from medical doctors. This drug, Marinol, is less often prescribed because of the potential adverse effects, and there are more effective new medicines currently available.

-Marinol is a tough drug to to obtain and is very rarely used. THC does not have adverse effects so it is obviously something else invovled with the pill.

While a biomedical or casual relationship between marijuana and the use of hard drugs has not been established, the statistical association is quite convincing. 12 to 17 year-olds who smoke marijuana are 85 times more likely to use cocaine than those who do not. 60% of adolescents who use marijuana before age 15 will later use cocaine. These correlations are many times higher than the initial relationships found between smoking and lung cancer.

-One of the main reasons for this is the D.A.R.E. program. D.A.R.E. says that marijuana is bad and to stay away. Most teenagers will try marijuana and realize those were lies and think that they may be lieing about cocaine as well so they must try it thus getting addicted. In Holland, where marijuana is legal, hard drug use has decreased 17-20% since marijuana was legalized so this something about the gateway theory.

Major medical and health organizations, as well as the vast majority of nationally recognized expert medical doctors, scientists and researchers, have concluded that smoking marijuana is not a safe and effective medicine. These organizations include: the American Medical Association, the American Cancer Society, National Sclerosis Association, the American Glaucoma Association, American Academy of Opthalmology, National Eye Institute, and the National Cancer Institute.

-As I have said before, there are different ways to use marijuana. Also, these tests were done on animals and used at near lethal doses.

In 1994, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that marijuana should remain a Schedule I drug: highly addictive with no medical usefulness. The court noted that the pro-marijuana physicians had relied on non-scientific evidence.

-Once again a myth. Marijuana is not physically addictive. This was 7 years ago, we have come a long way to understanding the full potential of marijuana. Many tests that the goverment uses to ensure marijuana illegal has come from animal tests where they use near lethal doses.

Political Issues: The California and Arizona Ballot Initiatives.

California's Proposition 215, The Compassionate Use Act of 1996, states: "Section 11357 (criminal penalties), relating to the possession of marijuana, and Section 11358 (criminal penalties), relating to the cultivation of marijuana, shall not apply to a patient, or to a patient's primary caregiver, who possess or cultivates marijuana for the personal medical purposes of the patient upon the written or oral recommendation or approval of a physician."

Arizona's Proposition 200, the Drug Medicalization, Prevention, and Control Act of 1996, states: "We must toughen Arizona's laws against violent criminals on drugs. Any person who commits a violent crime while under the influence of illegal drugs should serve 100% of his or her sentence with absolutely no early release." The proposition then goes on to say doctors may be permitted "to prescribe Schedule I controlled substances to treat a disease, or to relieve the pain and suffering of seriously ill and terminally ill patients."

Both of these ballot initiatives passed, with 56% support for Prop. 215 and 65% support for Prop. 200.

The language in these ballot initiatives for California and Arizona are so loosely worded that they basically legalize marijuana for everyone, sick or well, adult or child. Physicians will be able to legally dispense marijuana for migraines, depression or any other ailments.

-First off, what kind of doctor will perscribe marijuana to children. You must give some credit, not all doctors are morons. Many reasons people think marijuana induces you to act out criminally is based on steretypical views as in if you smoke marijuana you will be lazy like the "Dirty Mexican" and that Black people who smoke cocaine will increase their sex drives and rape women. These are all scapegoats.

Legalizing marijuana through the political process bypasses the safeguards established by the Food and Drug Administration to protect the public from dangerous or ineffective drugs. Every other prescribed drug must be tested according to scientifically rigorous protocols to ensure that it is safe and effective before it can be sold.

-The goverment does not allow us to conduct actual tests and such.

The California ballot initiative will make marijuana available without a written prescription, bypassing all established medical guidelines for dispensing drugs. The Arizona ballot initiative will legalize all Schedule I drugs for medical use. Schedule I drugs are drugs that have a high potential for abuse and have no currently accepted medical use in treatment. Examples of Schedule I drugs are marijuana, LSD and heroin. Under Arizona's proposition all of these drugs would be essentially legalized for any so-called medical use.

-There is a fine line for marijuana on Schedule 1 and Schedule 2. If it is natural THC it is considered Schedule 2, if it is artificial marijuana it is considered Schedule 1. A good example is Cocaine and Crack. Crack is on Schedule 1 because it has no medicinal use, Cocaine on the other hand is on Schedule 2 because it has some medicinal use. The same with marijuana.

Both of these laws allow for the possession of marijuana for medicinal purposes, however, buying and selling marijuana will remain illegal.

-Of course, dealing would be illegal.

These ballot initiatives were passed through a major disinformation campaign financed by wealthy individuals from outside these states. The billionaire financier George Soros gave over half a million dollars to support these initiatives. Other significant contributors include George Zimmer, president and CEO of the Men's Warehouse clothing store chain, Peter Lewis of The Progressive Corporation Insurance company in Ohio, and John Sperling, CEO of the Apollo Group, a Phoenix holding company for numerous educational institutions.

-Many ballos are done through money. Look at tobacco, they pay millions each year from taxes yet the goverment enjoys these millions. If marijuana were leagalized they would be able to tax it as well meaning much more money for the goverment to use.

The true agenda for Prop. 215 and 200 is revealed when you examine the backers of these initiatives. The National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws (NORML), the Drug Policy Foundation and the Cannabis Buyers Club in San Francisco have spearheaded the passage of the propositions. The radical legalization agenda of these groups leaves little doubt about their broader goal to legalize marijuana and other drugs. As reported in High Times magazine, the director of NORML expressly stated that the medical use of marijuana is an interal part of the strategy to legalize marijuana. A former director of NORML told an Emory University audience that NORML would be using the issue of medicinal marijuana as a red herring to give marijuana a good name.

-Of course legalizing for medicinal use is a step towards total legalization. It will show that it is not nearly as bad as everyone says it is. NORML does not support legalization of other drugh, ence the the name "Reform MARIJUANA Laws".

Social and Cultural Issues:
The medical marijuana movement and its million dollar media campaign have helped contribute to the changing attitude among our youth that marijuana use is harmless. This softening in anti-drug attitudes among teens has led to a 140% increase in marijuana use among high school seniors from 94'-95'.
The pro-legalization organizations behind these ballot initiatives deny that there is a drug problem among our youth. As much as they seek to focus on people suffering with illnesses, we must keep the debate properly centered on the safety of our kids. In a time where drug use among kids has increased 78% in the last four years, this country cannot afford to undermine drug prevention efforts with these pro marijuana ballot initiatives.

-'94-'95 are key years because this is the highest point when marijuana was used by kids, thus creating the D.A.R.E. program which has reduced drug use somewhat but not nearly enough for all the millions of dollars used. Alcohol use has increased with children since then, much more than marijuana, and alcohol creates much more intense damage, such as liver damage, than marijuana.

The strategy to link marijuana with current legal substances such as alcohol and tobacco is used regularly by the pro-legalization groups. The response to this argument is to state that current use among teens is 50% for alcohol, 34% for tobacco and 19% for marijuana. If we want to see marijuana use among youth equal to alcohol and tobacco, then we should go ahead and legalize marijuana.

-Considering marijuana is less harmful than tobacco and alcohol I doubt it would be considered a problem. There will always be alcohol and tobacco in the hands of kids, there is nothing that is going to stop that. With marijuana it would be ensured that it would not be laced are much nicer to smoke, eliminating dealer contamination.

Legalizing marijuana would add a third drug that combines some of the most serious risks of alcohol and tobacco. Marijuana offers both the intoxicating effects of alcohol and the long-term lung damage of tobacco.

-Intoxicating? When drunk you will be much more violent and moronic then high. When drunk you do spontaneous things, when high you will not and just chill. Lung Damage: I have repeated this several times but once more. Marijuana has more tar than tobacco but a smoker smokes much more than a toker does in a day. THC also has bronchial dilators that act as cough drops almost and clear the airways better.

Tobacco companies similarly advertised cigarettes as medicinal until the Federal Trad Commision put a stop to it in 1955. Medicinal marijuana is the "Joe Camel" of the promarijuana lobby, since it is children, the first time users, who are most impressed by these erroneous health claims.

-The diffence between tobacco having medicinal use and marijuana have marijuana have medicinal use is quite simple. Marijuana has medicinal use, tobacco doesn't. Tobacco simply relaxes, marijuana on the other hand helps with spasms, cancer, glaucoma etc.

I'm sure that this will get alot of you all heated up but let's try and keep this on an intelligent level please.

-I hope I did keep it on an intelligent level.

Now convince me i'm wrong!

-I hope I convinced you.

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As you have noticed, I had to repeat the same thing many times over and over. This is because it is all the same with people against marijuana. I hope I have shed some light to people.

__________________
Slow down
You move too fast
Got to make the morning last
Just kickin' down the cobble stones
Looking for fun and
Feelin' Groovy

ratamahatta

many thanks to KWhite
- your links will prove invaluable in weed conversations and debates alike.

tha_hashassin

i got this from the NORML site, thought i'd share with you guys....

Myth: No One Has Ever Died From Using Marijuana

The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving.1 There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents—some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5%) used both pot and alcohol in combination.2 This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.

Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity.

Footnotes

1. Herbert Moskowitz, “Marihuana and Driving,” Accident Analysis and Prevention 17#4: 323-45 (1985).

2. Carl Soderstrom et al., “Marijuana and Alcohol Use Among 1023 Trauma Patients,” Archives of Surgery, 123: 733-7 (1988

while it does not appear that marijuana use has been linked to cancer, it has caused accident related deaths just like alcohol. not nearly as many, but even one death means that we can't say NO ONE has ever died from marijuana.

tha_hashassin

i found this on the NORMAL site too.

Myth: Marijuana is Harmless

Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are: (1) respiratory disease due to smoking and (2) accidental injuries due to impairment.

Marijuana and Smoking:
A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers.1 These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.2

Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers.3 Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers.4 A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:5

“Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health.”

Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies: (1) use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities, (2) use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies,6 and (3) ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.

Footnotes

1. Michael R. Polen et al. “Health Care Use by Frequent Marijuana Smokers Who Do Not Smoke Tobacco,” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 596-601 (June 1993).

2. Donald Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health?” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 635-7 (June 1993).

3. D. Tashkin et al, “Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or Cocaine on the Lung,” in Research Findings on Smoking of Abused Substances, NIDA Research Monograph 99 (1990).

4. Paul Donald, “Advanced malignancy in the young marijuana smoker,” Adv Exp Med Biol 288:33-56 (1991); FM Taylor, “Marijuana as a potential respiratory tract carcinogen,” South Med Journal 81:1213-6 (1988).

5. D. Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health,?” op. cit.

6. Nicholas Cozzi, “Effects of Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke: A Literature Review,” MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) newsletter, Vol. IV #2 (1993) (Reprints available from MAPS and Cal. NORML).

so maybe not lung cancer, but it does look like the studies show a higher incidence of throat, neck and tounge cancer in marijuana only smokers.

 

KWhite

You are very welcome, I am glad when anything helps us all along.
Kelly

__________________
"Your mind is your own, your body as well, from the soul we need not speak, tend it well, making those decisions you deem worthy, aware all responsibility is in your hands when the smoke clears" Kelly L. White

"It is a principle of natural justice that when bad men make bad laws, or when unprincipled authorities compromise good ones, citizens are justified in protecting themselves from the very authority that compromised law and order." Gandhi

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Adikkal

Yeah KWhite,

One thing though. Admittedly i didn't check ALL your links, but the ones i did look at, namely the "Stoned Drivers" one, seemed misleading to me.

It states that a higher percentage of drug free drivers cause accidents than people who had marijuana in their blood.

Well you'd bloody well think so wouldn't you considering the majority of the population are drug free. In the sense of illegal drugs that is. I thought 50% was alarmingly high for marijuana users.

At the time of the post i dont have the other website open, so at a later date i will look at it again and make sure what i'm saying is correct.

I might have misread.

Pleasantly,
Adikkal

KWhite

What you say concerning marijuana driving does seem to lead to that interpretation.
What has actually been revealed is the lessening of the "aggression" factor, and a heightening of the "caution" state of mind.
It is interesting to note, every study has found these same results, one done in Scotland I believe actually spoke as to how no proof of impairment was evident. This was a long time ago, but the response was quick, "It is not a case of marijuana not impairing drivers, this shows the inadequacies of the current testing" sounds like "Lets get this spun opur way pronto!" to me.
The same type of studies upon which our alcohol laws are based.
Now, please do not get me wrong, I do believe you are impaired, I have *Shamefaced* driven drunk, stoned and sober, and in my old age, I prefer sober.
*Hey we all learn*
What they are saying is that marijuana users are typically calmer, and less prone to rash decisions or aggressive behaviour than those either alcohol inebriated or sober.
Knowing they are impaired, they slow down, and watch carefully.
This reminds me of a friend, whose mother got busted in Montana.
Montana has no speed limit on their highways, nightime being the exception, where 75 becomes the law I believe.
It seems she was cruising along the interstate at a whopping 30 mph. this piqued a police officer's interest, and she was stopped, stoned and holding.
She was just not comfortable with going faster.
Now this provides a danger in the other direction, anywhere but Montana *I have driven through Montana, great place, but not a lot of traffic, hmmm maybe that is why it is so great??*
I hope this answers your query a bit.
Kelly
*Note: To my knowledge, the general results of this study have been reproduced in : Scotland, Australia, Canada*

Adikkal

Yeah, that was exactly what i thought.

Stoned drivers are more cautious drivers, less likely to run redlights etc. But slow drivers can cause other impatient drivers to make those foolish decisions which may lead to accidents.

If you live in suburbia, and just had to drive along quiet streets to get home and you were stoned, it should be ok.

As long as there's no other cars on the road, stoned drivers should be sweet as. But please, for everyones safety, drive safely, drive sober.

Adikkal

Fab4Fan6

Well, I've dealt with marijuana and it's effects on a very personal level, and I'm telling you, all the arguments in the world can't hold a CANDLE to the mind-changing power of seeing someone you love, in an intense state of suffering, being helped by this substance.