bennet1234

I'd like to start this post by saying that I love marijuana. I smoke it on a daily basis, with my friends or by myself. It makes me a better guitar player, it makes me appreciate life more, and I'm very grateful that it exists.



But I don't think that it should be legalized.



A common argument for legalization is that alcohol, which is legal, is a more dangerous drug than mary; it's addictive, fatal, and destroys lives. I agree with this point, because I've seen friends go through much bigger problems with alcohol than I have with marijuana.

Alcoholics seem miserable, and eventually they die from either liver complications or accidents that occur while they're drunk: ie falling down the stairs or falling asleep on a railroad track (like my uncle). Marijuana addicts aren't even biologically dependent on the drug, only mentally, and most of them are actually very happy people.

The difference that I see between alcohol and marijuana is that while alcohol is more dangerous biologically, it takes much longer to get drunk than it does to get high. I can smoke a bowl of hash and get blazed out of my mind in five minutes; it would take me a whole night of drinking to get that inebriated.

What this means is that if marijuana was fully legalized and sold in stores like liquor or cigarettes, any adult could get high as often as they want. I know adults (and I'm sure everyone who smokes does too) who are high every minute of the day. Have you ever heard of a wake and bake? Nobody except for an alcoholic gets drunk first thing in the morning, but herbalists like you and me do it all the time.

We go to work high. Nobody goes to work drunk unless they're trying to get fired. That means that the legalization of jane would have a massive effect on society, much bigger than alcohol or cigarettes have had. We would have the choice between being high all the time or sober. I assume, regretfully, that a good chunk of society would choose to be high.

Looking at all of the stoner teenagers I see today, I don't like to imagine how many kids would be toking everyday if it was legal. Remember, marijuana is much, much easier to conceal than alcohol. Also, it is much easier to conceal being high than it is to conceal drunkeness.

So while the penalites for possession are a bit harsh (an understatement) I think that full legalization or complete decriminalization are not viable options. Surely, drug war reform is direly needed, but not the way that most potheads propose.


Sorry, I don't mean to troll, but I haven't ever seen this argument answered on this site. I have seen it ignored plenty of times, for a (fairly) recent example look here

Plainsman1963

Ok, your link lost me. It was stating the side of responsible use, I didn't see this argument being brought up, or ignored?

I'll give ya my take on it.
Yes, I agree it is a common argument. I don't agree with this approach, since just because thing a is bad for you and legal, doesn't mean thing b that isn't as bad should be legal as well.
It's trying to argue your position on a negative, if that makes sense.
Well, I don't think so. I think there will be a brief upswell as folks that were interested in trying it, but didn't because of the illegality of it, do and then it will break down kind of like it is now. You have your addictive personalities, that will abuse it. You will have your functional stoners (like functional alcoholics) who get the job done while trying to maintain the buzz, and you have responsible users.

Now, should we dumb down all our freedoms because of the percentage that will abuse it?
Riding motorcyles, speeding, cold medicine...We will spend our lives trying to protect the abusers, taking away the freedoms (some say natural freedoms) from everyone.
I don't think that is fair, or workable (looking at the prison ratio for drug users).
Actually, I believe if you look at the stats where the herb is legal, you would find the teenage ratio actually going down or staying the same (anybody help me out here with a link?).

Take out the rebelliousness, give them facts and it's amazing what the homo sapien will do.

I hope Nevada and/or Colorado pass their legalization, so that 10-20 years down the line, we can point to them and say "See. Told ya so".

bennet1234

A funtional alcoholic is someone who craves alcohol but still manages to function in society. I've never met a stoner who couldn't function in society; some do better than some squares.

A functional alcoholic isn't drunk 24/7. Some stoners are, most are just high as often as possilbe. That's not possible to do with alcohol.

I don't know anyone that was interested in trying it and didn't because it was illegal or couldnt find a source, because most people reason that the chances of being caught after smoking it once are little to none.

Another common argument for the legalization of mj is a comparison to the alcohol prohibition of the 20's. The reason that failed so miserably is that alcohol was already a major part of society before it was made a illegal: it was all over the media and it was an accepted part of culture.

Also, prohibition worked much like decriminalization does: it was illegal to sell or possess large quanities of alcohol but it was legal to drink and own small quanities of liquor. The truth about alcohol prohibition is that it stopped almost noone from drinking. It wasn't frowned upon by most men, and it was still a part of mainstream culture.

Marijuana is not nearly as prevelant in U.S. culture as alcohol. If it was legalized, it would become much more prevelant than alcohol for the following reasons:
-It's easier to consume; you can get high in the time in takes to smoke a cigarette
-It's easier to conceal both mj and being high

Richi

You make some good points, are argue your side much better than some of the other people I've seen around here, but let me make one comment...

Yes, I have waked and baked, last Sunday, then I made myself bacon and eggs.

Personally, I don’t. I think it is a bad idea because it interferes with my work. I would not recommend anyone to do this, except the painters, musicians, and Snoop Dogg. Marijuana inhibits some actions of my brain, so I use it responsibly and in the right time/way. I think everyone should do this, and it would be much better if it would get legalized, because then people could openly inform others. There is a stigma about going to work drunk, and the same thing would happen with marijuana.

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Buzzby

I have no problems with marijuana at all. I'm a responsible user and a medical user. I use marijuana in moderation and at appropriate times.

You are speaking of extremes. Many alcoholics live long and prosperous lives. My father was an alcoholic, an executive, and a pillar of the community. He died at 84 from complications of being a lifelong cigarette smoker. He confined his drinking to evenings and weekends, as most successful alcoholics do. Comparing the extreme alcoholics who are killed by their excessive habit with normal recreational marijuana users is ludicrous. It would make more sense to compare them with the guy who comes home and has a beer or two after work.

Some are. Some aren't. We certainly hear from both kinds, but the extremely heavy users are usually the ones who aren't happy about it. If you choose to spend your life under the influence of a drug there is probably something wrong with you, whatever the drug might be. A balanced life is one in which recreational drugs are used, uh, recreationally!

Any adult could be a drunk or a chain smoker, but only a few choose those paths. What's your point? Anyone desiring to be stoned all the time can do so now - marijuana is so universally available that anyone who really wants it already has it.

I feel sorry for them. They've lost sight of what life is all about. I know adults who are drunk as much of the time as they can be. They're sick people. What has that got to do with the rest of us?

I haven't done that since I was in college in the 60s. Most marijuana users aren't psychologically addicted. Most, in fact, aren't even daily smokers. People who "wake and bake" are the small minority, just like my brother-in-law who starts drinking as soon as he recovers from passing out. Unless you've got serious psychological problems, why would you want to be high all the time? How boring! The reason most people use recreational drugs is to change their consciousness - a little vacation from mundane thinking. If you're high all the time, being high becomes mundane.

I never go to work high. I doubt that very many people do. I don't doubt that some people go to work under the influence of cannabis, but how "high" can they be and still do a decent job? People who smoke all the time don't get very high because of their massive tolerance. (See: The Tolerance Factor) People who drink a lot also develop a tolerance and may appear to be completely sober when they've had enough to knock out a normal person.

You seem to have left out the most obvious option: that people would get high when it is appropriate to get high and be sober when it is appropriate to be sober. Just because marijuana is available doesn't mean that people will be high all the time any more than the availability of alcohol means people will be drunk all the time. Since only a tiny minority choose to be high all the time today, why do you think it would be any different if marijuana was legal?

No rational person would suggest that legalizing marijuana would mean legalizing it for children. Surveys have shown that under prohibition most high school students find it easier to obtain marijuana than alcohol. If marijuana was distributed in the same way as alcohol and cigarettes, rather than by black marketeers who don't "card", it would be less available to children than it is today.

You sound like a person who has trouble controlling his cannabis intake and thinks that his addictive personality type is far more commonplace in the general population than it actually is.

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Richi

I do agree with the rest of your points, I'm not so sure we are all talking about the same thing here. A wake and bake on the weekend, once in a while, is not the same as being high all the time. Just like some people smoke them self to sleep every night, while other's can choose to do it once in a while, while still others smoke it medicinally like you do, Buzz. And wake and bake cannot be compared to getting drunk, unless you smoke yourself stupid.

Buzzby

I was speaking to the implications of the original post, that marijuana users typically smoke upon waking up, go to work high, and are stoned 24/7.

I refer you to the original post:I don't generally smoke to get "blazed out of my mind", any more than I drink until I'm ready to pass out. Bennet1234's implication was that people generally use drugs to get wasted, not to achieve a comfortable but functional state of consciousness. In my experience, such people are the exception rather than the rule.

An occasional blowout session or wake-and-bake are not in the same category.

Drag

Lol its actually funny, its SO much harder for teens to get alcohol than it is to get MJ.


If they legalized it I can see what would happen...poor kids

bennet1234

I think that there is already a stigma about going to work high. It's just easier to conceal and alot of people don't care.

A major difference between alcohol and marijuana addiction is that there is much more awareness of alcoholism than there is of marijuana addiction. When we drink, we know that if we drink too much too often, we could die from a liver complication or ruin our lives in a different way. There is a visible line.

With marijuana there is no such line. It's not physically addictive, and mental addicts don't have any biological repercussion. Alot of people (not everybody, but still a good percent of smokers) either don't see the line or don't care if they cross it.

I think alot of users are like you, but I think that alot of users are less responsible. Just like there are responsible alcohol users and there are binge drinkers. If you legalized marijuana it would be easier to be less responsible with it and more people would be users. So, it would have a much much greater effect on society than it does today.

Again, the main problem I with legalization is that if it were legalized it would have a greater effect on society than alcohol does today, for the reasons I've stated earlier: it's much easier to conceal the substance (a joint weighs half a gram as opposed to 40 ounces) it can be smoked in the time it takes to smoke a cigarette.


But, i think that the notion that dealing to kids would end isn't logical. Remember that alot of teenagers get their herb from other teens. I know when I was a teenager almost all of my dealers were my age. I would even argue that dealing among teens would become more commonplace because the government wouldn't be nearly as adamant in tracking down pot dealers as they are today. No stings, no dogs, no narcs, no tests. If a teen wanted to deal they could make good money with little to no risk of being caught.

Also, a rise of attention given to marijuana in the media and a rise of use among adults would mean that the teen who "just says no" to mj but still drinks alcohol would disappear. Alot of the teens who don't drink because they think it's unsafe would probably be attracted to weed.

I'm just not nearly as naive as the rest of you. I'm an adult, I do smoke responsibly, and I have a good life. I just think that in the bigger picture, legalizing mj would just bring more drug culture into the mainstream.

The penalties for cannabis use are a tad harsh, yes, but if you are a responsible smoker there's an extremely low chance you'll get caught. I've had the same dealer for more than 10 years, and I only smoke in the privacy of my or my friend's home.

The people most likely to get caught, and the ones that the feds focus on the most are the dealers and the growers who are obviously aware of the risks they take, and the teenage smokers who don't have safe places to smoke.

Buzzby

Tell that to the 700,000 people who get busted every year. If there are 24,000,000 marijuana users in the US, that represents 3% of us getting arrested annually. If you smoke for ten years you have an almost 1-in-3 chance of getting busted. I'd hardly call that "an extremely low chance". Everyone thinks they're safe -- until the bust comes down on them.

The feds concentrate on dealers and growers. State and local police focus on everyone else. That's why 85% of those 700,000 arrests are for simple possession. I'm happy for you that you have a fairly safe way to smoke. What I fail to understand is why you have no compassion for anyone else.