deadhed

Mamabudz:
"The chief difference between cannabis and every other drug is that every other drug can be consumed to a toxic and lethal amount. "
Not true. No human has ever suffered a death from LSD or peyote. I believe that you can not overdose on shrooms either.

Cocaine and other drugs are a different beast, however. You hear people from all walks of like calling for MJ legalization, but the only ones you ever hear asking for legalization of crack and such are rich white people who have never been exposed to a crack ghetto or a junkie house in their life. I think that the movement to legalize all other drugs besides MJ and the various safe hallucinogens (PCP, Ketamine are definately not in this group.) is elitist and destructive.

Deep_Freeze

Persoanly...
i think all drugs should be legal (yes,even the hard one')
and sold at the local 7 11
because peopel can chose to buy them and use them, thats y god gave us free will
to make our own choices about the things we put into our bodies,and if they end-up hurting themselves because of there use, then so be it, they chose to use those drugs,no one forced'em
but if they hurt other peopel because of their drug use, then yes,they should serve prison time, or rehab

just my 2 cents

__________________
As long as the human race has free will, We will always be prisinors of our own corruption and greed.

Panama

I'm afraid you're mistaken there. It's quite possible to overdose from all three of those substances.

__________________
"This fight against the War on Drugs is not a war in the classic sense of the word, so it's virtually impossible to point to one instance and say, 'That was the battle that stemmed the tide in our favor'. We have had many small victories that have led us to where we are and each day we continue to communicate and educate brings us that much closer to our ultimate goal: The end of marijuana prohibition." -Richard "Panama" Red-
Marijuana.Com Posting Guideline

Deep_Freeze

It may be possible to O.D, but can u actually die?

deadhed

You can, of course, overdose in the sense that if you take too much, you might have a negative experience but...

http://www.qc.edu/Security/yrtk_c.htm
Here death from overdose is not listed for any of the drugs that I mentioned.

Pharmacotheon
by Jonathon Ott
p.139
"I must emphasize that there is no danger of death or injury from overdose of LSD, which must have about the highest therapeutic index of any drug known (the ratio of fatal dose to effective dose is unknown since no human being has ever died from an overdose of LSD, but must be very high, as individuals have mistakenly ingested hundreds of doses at a sitting; this is a way of saying that the drug is not at all toxic)."

Note the DEA's own website states that you can not kill yourself by overdose of LSD.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/lsd/lsd-7.htm

http://www.nida.nih.gov/DrugsofAbuse.html
This NIDA site does not state death as a possible result from hallucinogen use.

The theoretical LD50 of LSD is astronomical. Although lab trials on animals have placed it in the 20,000ug range (200x the standard dose), the only confirmed death from LSD overdose was from a user who had injected 3200x the standard dosage intraveinously. (Erowid, Journal of the KY Medical Association. Of course you can "overdose" on anything if you consume enough of it. People have died from consuming too much water. If you wanted to consume a brick of crystalline LSD, then you're a fool. No laws will ever stop fools from killing themselves if they are truly motivated to do so.

Although many sites claim "possible death" as a result of mescaline and psilocybin, I could not find a confirmed report of one of these deaths.

m.t.ness

"Then again im also the type of guy that thinks alcohol should be done away with...."

how realistic i that? i do believe th last effort to prohibit alcohol wasa failure. why would we try it again?

"Am i right? No. Am i wrong? No. Im opinionated, and IMHO not too many people can handle the effects of harder drugs."

no. youre opinionated and wrong. if you are an adult its up to you to decide what you can handle. its not up to society to protect you from harm.


Not to mention the cost of such things, which is a lot more than a bag of weed that will last you a couple of weeks."

how do you know how much drugs cost? the only place you can buy drugs now is on the street and those prices are artificially inflated up to 200%. thats not how much drugs would cost in a legal market.

The major difference between marijuana and harder drugs, do you see a legalization movement for heroin or cocaine? I didnt think so

yes there is a movement to legalize hard drugs . its called the libertarian party. and its the third largest party in america thank you. to only advocate the legalization of pot and ignore other drugs is tunnel vision.

m.t.ness

You hear people from all walks of like calling for MJ legalization, but the only ones you ever hear asking for legalization of crack and such are rich white people who have never been exposed to a crack ghetto or a junkie house in their life. I think that the movement to legalize all other drugs besides MJ and the various safe hallucinogens (PCP, Ketamine are definately not in this group.) is elitist and destructive.

to say the only people calling fo complete lealization are rich people is a sweeping generaliztion. besides that, what difference does it make who proposes the idea? judge the idea on its merits ,not by who conceived it.

i could be mistaken but i thought you said you were a libertarian in another thread . all libertarians are in favor o lgalization of all drugs. i dont think you are a true libertarian. i think you are one of many people who claims to be a libertarian but you really are not.

Panama

Dedhead, allow me to qualify my statement. Granted, with none of those drugs you mentioned is it probable to ingest enough to reach toxic levels. But, and this is a major but, at high levels of intoxication on any of those three drugs you will be susceptible to doing things against your better judgement, whereas no matter how much marijuana you smoke/eat will you do anything that would go against your conscious.

To illustrate my point better a little hypothetical situation: Say, you've just hotboxed your car and your mind starts to wander and you start to think of how cool it'd be if your car could fly. Well, substitute any of the three other drugs for marijuana and your mind will be able to convince you that your car truely can fly and it'd be a pretty cool idea to drive off the cliff. A bit mellow dramatic, I will grant, but that's it in a nutshell.

deadhed

Pan: True (Back in the 8th grade, a man came to our school in a wheelchair because he broke his neck while climbing a tree on acid.), but I think my "fool" statement applies in that situation (I was editing my post as you responded, so there's some new stuff). Driving under the influence is never a good idea. I think though that people who drive while tripping and wreck also would drive drunk and wreck. In my way of thinking, I would say that that would be an issue of personal responsibility,

m.t.ness: My statement was reckless. Allow me to say something else. Although they might not be rich, I would say that most libertarians are firmly middle class. Very few people that live in crack ghettos will ask for legalization, though. It affects them the most. Am I a Libertarian? (I knew someone would pick up on this ) If by Libertarian you mean that I agree with Libertarian principles more than any other party, then yes, I am one. If by Libertarian you mean that I follow the party dogma without indepenent critical thought, then no, I am not a Libertarian. Label me whatever you want, I am not going to support legalization of freebase.

m.t.ness

"Very few people that live in crack ghettos will ask for legalization, though. It affects them the most. "


thats because most of the people who live in those neighborhoods , for whatever reason, have bought into the idea that the way to deal with drug dealers standing on their corners and drug addicts stealing their property is to put them in jail. because the majority there feel that way doesnt mean that they are right. let me ask you this. is the basis for your objection to maijuana prohibition the fact that marijuana is not as dangerous as other drugs? in my opinion that is not the only reason. i also think that the idea of prohibiting the use and sell of drugs is unenforceable. you dont agree? if i am right then drugs on the list for potential legalization shouldnt only be soft drugs like marijuana but hard drugs too. because locking people up for drug use of any kind has never worked. unless you can show me how prohibition was a success i would say it is time to give up on a failed idea. i believe this quote is true.

"He who does not understand history is doomed to repeat it."
- Santayana

i think we are repeating it right now.


i dont know whether the libertarin ideas are dogma . i wouldnt call them that but they could fall into that category. legalization is such a major part of the libertarian platform that you could not be a libertarian if you did not believe in it. that means an official member or a philosophical one. asking could you be a libertarian without supporting complete legalization of all drugs is like saying can your house stand up if i took away all the beams inside it. no.