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Herb Ninja

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commonsense

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Herb Ninja

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Newrea64

Commonsense, I have to say that I agree with almost everything you've stated. I too believe that some drugs are inherently more problematic and should be kept out of the public realm. I think we've exchanged this idea before, but in your quote above, you take the extreme position to make a point. Not to offend you, but this is exactly what the politicians do with regard to marijuana.

quote from John Walters regarding the current Nevada legislation for legalising small amounts of marijuana:

"The biochemistry of dependence on marijuana is the same as for other drugs," he said. "These are important realities that are not known."

We know this to be absolutely not true, but in an extreme circumstance, there are going to be people that would have the same proclivity to get addicted to pot as cocaine. We also know that it is not unusual for Walters and Hutchinson and the like to continue to float this mis-information.

You put forth some very well thought ideas regarding drug policy, but these extremes lessen the credibility of your argument.

vaya

I don't have all the answers. I don't think anyone does. I do not think it is simple as those who believe all prohibition is wrong think it is. We should stick to just trying to get marijuana legalized. It's something we all know should happen and something we actually have a good fighting chance of achieving. If we can help make the other drug laws more sane in the process, good.

Exactly, this is what I was saying in my previous post.

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GelTab

I think anything that carries a public safety risk is reason for concern. Stuff like opiates and methanphetamines could be considered a public health risk (overdosages, very high potential for abuse, etc). To tell the truth, I could care less about most drugs being unprohibited. With the exception of marijuana and other such drugs that don't have a high potential for abuse or carry the risks of overdosage(LSD for example). I don't think that such drugs (such as opiates and methanphetmines) should carry severe legal penalties. For such drugs, I do think people caught in possesion of personal amounts should be offered help. If you lock them up, once they get out, they're probably just going to go back to the same old thing (although, I can't personally attest to this...just seems to me, that's what would happen).

Quote (commonsense):
Drugs and alcohol can lead to family disintegration, neglect, crime and other costs to society. I see it all the time with my own two eyes. You say these people have underlying problems. I agree, but that doesn't make me feel any better about drugs and alcohol exacerbating these problems. I can't tell you how many wife-beating cases I've seen where the men never beat their wives unless they were drunk or on drugs like meth, or both.

I have to agree with vivrantv on his statements regarding this matter. Although you are much more in touch with these types of matters than I am. These types of problems are very low here (except for crack addiction, it seems to be a problem in a few areas in this city), so I can't relate.

Quote (commonsense):
I want marijuana to be legal because I know that alcohol is generally more harmful to individuals and society than weed. It is stupid and unfair to keep it illegal. Most of the problems I see with marijuana are directly related to the fact that it is illegal. Yes, some people over do it with weed and it causes them some non-law related problems, but nothing like these other substances.

Very well put.

Quote (commonsense):
Some drugs are just so addictive and dangerous that we probably should prohibit their use.

What are your views on non-violent addicts caught in possesion of personal amounts? Should they be jailed, or should we try to learn how to help?

commonsense

I do not agree with the way we jail people found in possession of personal amounts of drugs, nor do I agree with the way we give many of them felony records. Even with our current tough on drugs policy, most people caught with say, a half a gram of cocaine, do not end up in prison. But they do end up out a lot of money and they are put on long suspended sentences. They lose their drivers licenses and their record precludes them from a lot of jobs and living arrangements, financial aid and so on. This is counterproductive. Many of these people have other minor screw ups and end up in prison. Many find it difficult to earn a living and end up committing crimes. Some are hurt much more than others.

Also, I hate the arbitrariness of it. Some people get off light and some people get nailed hard. It all depends on where they are busted, who the prosecutor and judge are, and what mood folks are in. Poor people and minorities do often end up getting a raw deal. It's unfair. It's like me telling my kids I'll whip all their asses if they do some certain thing, and then beating the crap out of one while I let the others off with a stern chewing out. What's the sense if having penalties you rarely impose? Is it fair to really stick it to some people when you slap others on the wrist for the same conduct? Are we really helping any meaningful percentage of actual addicts who are caught get off drugs?

The felony records are really unfair as well. I have an ex-uncle who is a drug court judge in Kentucky. He's apparently very well liked and his program is reportedly more effective than most. When he and my aunt were having problems in the late seventies, he was a young lawyer/politician with a terrible cocaine habit. Today to his credit he uses his past drug problems as an example for the defendants in his court. He tells them he got off drugs and they can too. What if he had been caught with that quarter ounce or more of cocaine he was injecting every week back years ago? He would not be a lawyer today, let alone a drug court judge who is actually helping people. We all know people like this.

There are so many out there who use or have used drugs that are either productive, useful members of society, or they will be someday. Why would we want to ruin that by giving people felony records? The laws don't seem to have much deterrent effect on drug use, but they do ruin lives and push a significant portion of our population into the fringes of society where the likelihood that they will actually benefit society diminishes and the probability that they will become a liability to society increases.

I don't know exactly how I would write the laws, but I would probably put hard drug use more on par with something like DWI, and maybe even make it a lesser crime. Punishment should be no more than driving while intoxicated because most folks are really only creating a risk of harm to society rather than actually causing harm to society when they play around with drugs. I think there should be consequences but they should "fit the crime" better. I believe that this would actually be more effective at deterring drug use because people won't just assume they'll get a fine, a suspended sentence and nothing more.

We should have much lighter punishments, but actually impose them on folks. I'd attempt to force them to abstain from drugs for a period of time in hopes to identify problem users and separate them from those who are just fooling around a little. I might require some drug education and maybe impose some community service or something. I'd offer treatment to anyone who wanted it and try not to impose it on people unless they really needed it. I'd save jail as a last resort, to be avoided whenever possible.

However we change the criminal laws, I think we need to try harm reduction strategies as well. Some of the things European governments are trying seem to be relatively effective at curbing drug use and the problems associated with it. Heroin maintenance programs, for instance, seem to be showing real potential. Programs that are effective in reducing blood born diseases and complications from impure drugs should be looked into.

Legalizing marijuana could help in the overall plan to get a handle on hard drug use. It would shrink the "enemy" dramatically. Most illegal drug users only smoke pot. If the government would open their arms to them and welcome them back into society, I suspect that instead of fighting government's every step, the significant portion of our population that only uses marijuana might actually be helpful in the cause of reducing the problems caused by hard drug abuse and addiction. Government would be much more successful at fostering a spirit of cooperation and the tax revenues and enforcement cost savings could help pay for implementation of necessary programs to combat the societal costs of hard drug abuse.

It is also absolutely imperative that government make every effort to be honest about drugs and our drug problem. They need to step up and admit that they are responsible for a great deal of misinformation and make a pledge to be honest about drugs from now on. This is far too serious an issue to play political games with. Government must regain credibility with regard to drug issues. Politicians and bureaucrats have to stop spreading misinformation. They need to put a muzzle on jackasses like John Walters and push for open and honest discussion on drugs.

Without open and honest discussion, all we have out there is an indecipherable mess of conflicting data on drugs. It makes informed decision making nearly impossible and has the unintended effect of causing people, mostly young people, to buy into almost all pro-drug messages while rejecting any negative information on drugs as government propaganda. How do we believe the government when they have cried wolf so many times?

I would like to see the rift between a significant portion of our population and government shrink. I want us all to work together to reduce the real problems addiction and hard drug abuse cause. In order to do this, the "war" on users and addicts has to end. So, necessarily, harsh punishment for simple drug use must become a thing of the past.

vaya

IMO, drugs like marijuana, alchohol, tobacco and psychotropics(psilocybe/psilocin, mescaline, JW) should all be legal for several purposes.

I couldnt care less about other drugs, although they do pose somewhat of a threat to our society....

This goes to show that education produces better results than DARE programs.

Elijah

I started drugs some year or two ago in Japan were they have some legal some not. I didn't do cannabis till I can back to the states almost 6 months ago now. I stopped doing other stuff, even stopped smoking and drinking for the most part. All I'd have to say on the topic is when you smoke alot it won't lead you to fits of rage which you may get from alcohol. If you smoke to much, you're just going to go to sleep. I have seen no reason in my personal experiences with cannabis that would lead me to anything but a lenient view toward it.

A few examples. I'm a young guy and one way I fit the young guy stereotype is fast driving. If I smoke then drive (not that I would advocate it with everyone or anyone else for that matter), I drive more cautiously and much more slowly. Secondly, my thought patterns are laid out in a more coherent way.

Simply put, I find no reason cannabis should be any more illegal than say tobacco. Tobacco most definately kills hundreds of thousands more than cannabis. The only thing I see much different in the two is one won't harm you as much but is able to alter your frame of mind which may frighten some.

-Elijah