Marijuana.com

Aoffke

Been reading this site for over 2 years, first time poster. This post is long, but please read it.

SWIM seems to have acquired, over the years, a very unpleasant response to THC. SWIM really wants to solve this issue, as cannabis has been such a good friend over the years. SWIM apologizes in advance for the length of this post, but SWIM wants to make sure that all data is presented so that we can best find a solution for not only SWIM, but also the many others that suffer from this same reaction.

First, some background. SWIM is 26, Male, ~150lbs. Blood pressure consistenly 130/90. Sedentary lifestyle until Jan 2008 where a demanding daily exercise regimen began (approx 800kcal/daily burned in exercise). Began using cannabis in 2004, with daily use beginning early 2005. Use was entirely via volcano vaporizer (not smoked), and escalated to approximately 18grams/month.

When SWIM gets THC in SWIM's bloodstream, the following effects currently result, in this progressing order:

- Stomach fullness / bloating
- Constant burping
- A pinching/squeezing/burning pain that seems to move around the stomach and heart area
- Left arm numbness / pain alleviated by pushing on the nerves in the arm
- Left leg numbness / pain alleviated by pushing on nerves in leg
- Pressure headache, feeling as if head is in a vice, sometimes burning pain at top of spine
- Sensation of left arm and leg being colder than rest of body
- A sense of diminished control over movement of left arm and leg
- Dizziness
- Sometimes a slight sensation of shortness of breath
- There have been a few occasions where this has escalated to a full panic attack, primarily as a response to the above.


The above symptoms did not appear spontaneously, but very slowly over time. I will recount the relevant history:

Mid 2005- SWIM experiences a very emotionally traumatic life experience, and becomes depressed. Begins taking SSRI Celexa 10mg/daily.

Fall 2005-Stops THC use cold turkey in desire to pass drug test. SWIM begins regular use of dextromethorphan. After over a month of THC abstinence at the peak of a 880mg DXM trip, SWIM's judgement fails and he takes 2 hits off the vaporizer. A full scale panic attack ensues. Mind racing 100000mph, heart rate ~200bpm, SWIM kept asking significant other "Will you hate me if I die tonight? Because I think I am going to die tonight". After 4 hours of insanity, this dies down. No chest pain was experienced.

Early 2006-To assist work and concentration, SWIM acquires a large quantity of pharmaceutical ephedrine. On night of first use, SWIM ingests 4x25mg ephedrine tablets (SWIM now knows this was a bad idea) and uses approximately 2 grams of cannabis via vaporizer. No negative effects other than sweating and tooth grinding. After the effects wear off (approx 6 hours later), SWIM takes 1x25mg ephedrine tablet and drinks a Coca-Cola. SWIM spontaneously feels chest pain, and a burning sensation from the heart, out to the left arm, up the shoulder and into the neck. Panic ensues, and SWIM fears he is experiencing a heart attack. After breathing slowly and calming down, the pain subsides. Next morning, as a test, SWIM ingests 1x25mg ephedrine tablet. Panic does not ensue, but similar chest pains occured. SWIM decides to never take ephedrine again.

Mar-April 2006-SWIM begins feeling stomach bloating and right side stomach pain after using THC. This usually progressed into heartburn. Calcium based antacids relieve the pain slighly, only to cause it to return more heavily. H2 blockers ineffective. SWIM goes to the doctor who believes the problem is Acid reflux and prescribes Omeprazole (prilosec). At this point, symptoms are only noticed during THC intoxication. Prilosec helps the problem very slightly, but seems to induce indigestion and nausea when not intoxicated.

May 2006-SWIM goes overseas for 2 weeks and notices that the heartburn and stomach distress are gone. No THC is available during the trip. Upon returning from the trip, SWIM tries THC again and chest pain and heartburn occur even worse than before. SWIM decides to stop using THC regularly. SWIM also discontinues (cold turkey) use of the SSRI Celexa.

Mid 2006-SWIM is at an acquaintance's house and has enjoyed a couple of glasses of red wine. SWIM decides to partake of a few hits from a vaporizer, and immediately notices pain/numbness in his left arm. It is nerve pain that is alleviated by pinching the nerve at the elbow in the arm. This is the first occurrence of arm pain.

Late 2006-Due to the dysphoria induced by THC, SWIM tries using it only very sporadically and begins drinking alcohol heavily as a replacement.

Early 2007-SWIM bakes brownies in an attempt to determine if the reaction is smoking/vaporizing related, or only THC related. Brownies induce the same response, but less intensely, because the effects come on so gradually. However, the consistent chest pain, arm pain, arm numbness, etc all occur.

May 2007-SWIM is concerned for his heart, so books an appointment with his PCP. SWIM has white coat syndrome, and so always presents with significantly elevated blood pressure at the doctor's office. BP reading of 165/110 causes doctor to call for an EKG. EKG is normal, except for sinus tachycardia (heart rate about 100bpm, likely induced by anxiety). Doctor says SWIM is fine and should just take Prilosec. Blood and urine tests all come back normal.

July 2007-SWIM attempts to use THC again on a camping trip. Prior to smoking, SWIM ingests in excess of 2 bottles of wine throughout the day, and takes a couple of .25mg Alprazolam (Xanax) pills. Smoking THC results in *NO* negative effects: No pain, no numbness, no headache. SWIM even managed to roll and smoke a couple of blunts that were embedded with mass quantities of hash, and still had no negative effects. SWIM believes that Ethanol and Xanax alleviate the reaction induced by THC.

Later July 2007-SWIM attempts to smoke a few hits from a pipe after ingesting approx 1 bottle of red wine. A terrible panic attack ensues, accompanied by a splitting headache, chest pain, arm an leg numbness. SWIM wishes to go to the doctor but given that SWIM was with his mother in law who did not know about SWIM's drug use, SWIM did not. SWIM decides that alcohol alone does not alleviate the symptoms, and that red wine causes the symptoms to be worse, rather than something like vodka.

Fall 2007-SWIM begins to notice chest pain and arm numbness when NOT using THC. After spicy meals, ingestion of coffee, or ingestion of caffeine. SWIM goes to doctor for another EKG and blood/urine tests. EKG and tests come back normal. SWIM admits to doctor that the pain is the absolute worst after use of cannabis, and explains that Xanax alleviates the symptoms. Doctor urges SWIM to no longer use cannabis, and reluctantly prescribes Xanax (schedule 4 controlled substance) to an admitted drug user. Doc says to "only take the pills if you really need them. Don't take them for fun."

2008- SWIM decides that perhaps his sedentary lifestyle is the culprit, and begins an exercise regimen. Exercise makes SWIM feel healthier, and SWIM loses approx 15lbs over the course of 4 months, but this does nothing to stop the dysphoria induced by THC.


For the past 18 months SWIM has been researching this issue. SWIM has read literally every thread on this site, and on every other drug related board that could possibly apply to this issue. SWIM has read every possible Usenet post about this issue. SWIM has read about the cannabinoid receptor system, the way vasopressors affect the sympathetic nervous system, the effects of THC on stomach motility, acid production, and esophageal sphincter function. SWIM has read countless medical journals and studies, about any number of various topics, such as the effects of alprazolam on acid reflux, on esophageal spasm, on hiatal hernia sufferers, etc.

SWIM has found scores and scores of people that seem to have the same symptoms, but none of them have truly found a working solution other than "stop smoking cannabis". SWIM has tried various pharmaceuticals and chemicals, none of which seem to entirely eliminate the problem (except one combo).

Here is what SWIM knows makes the problem worse:
- Cannabis use
- Anticipating the negative reaction
- Thinking and focusing on the problem/symptoms
- Previously consumed spicy food, coffee, caffeine
- Bad set and setting
- Laying down
- Laying on left side
- Diphenhydramine (Benadryl)

Here is what SWIM knows partially alleviates symptoms:
- Benzodiazepines
- Alcohol
- Phenibut
- Sitting straight up as opposed to lying supine
- Good set and setting
- Keeping my mind distracted; Not thinking about the problem

No significant effect:
- Atenolol (Beta blocker)
- Metoclopramide (Dopamine blocker "Reglan", induces gastric emptying, antiemetic)
- H2 blockers (famotidine, etc)
- Proton-pump inhibitors (Omeprazole, etc)
- Antacids (Rolaids etc... They help for a few minutes, it seems, and then stop. Or this is placebo).


The only sure fire way for SWIM to use THC without the negative effects is this: Consume at least 3 drinks of clear alcohol (For example, 3 vodka martinis), consume at least 2x.25mg Alprazolam tablets, and then use THC (preferably ingested and not smoked). This formula has worked on several occasions, but causes SWIM to use Alprazolam much faster than he can get it prescribed, and SWIM much prefers the clean THC intoxication compared to the hazy, stupifying Alcohol+Alprazolam intoxication.

SWIM has noticed on many occasions that the problem doesn't begin to occur until SWIM thinks about it. In fact, many times SWIM has smoked and consciously is amazed that he feels no negative symptoms, and at this point the symptoms come on full force. SWIM has had a panic attack several times as a result of this reaction, but would like to clarify that in general, no panic occurs. The pain and numbness is felt, but SWIM is not in a panic, and his heart rate remains relatively normal.

SWIM believes this indicates that the problem is psycho-somatic, but is not certain. The intensity of the burning/pinching/squeezing pain is very disconcerting. The pain is very real and very troubling. SWIM is concerned that he may have caused some sort of heart damage as a result of the Ephedrine experiment, and that the THC merely loads the heart in some way to cause this pain. However, SWIM daily gets his heart into the 170bpm range during Cardio exercise, and feels none of this pain.

SWIM has concluded that some part of the problem is gastrointestinal in nature, but SWIM is not sure whether this is the cause or result of the problem. For example, is THC inducing anxiety, that causes acid reflux? Or is THC causing acid or bile reflux, resulting in anxiety? Or, is THC inducing some sort of heart problem, that causes anxiety and hence acid reflux? SWIM is truly having trouble determining the cause-and-effect nature of the problem. The discomfort/pressure/pain is so intense that SWIM cannot seem to shake the idea that his is heart related, despite having 2 EKGs and blood/urine tests to the contrary.


Does anyone else on here have these symptoms? Or have a friend with similar symptoms?

Have you been able to cure this in any way?

Any insight?



SWIM just really wants his friend THC back. They've had so many good times together.

Thanks in advance for any comments, SWIM truly appreciates it.

 

Buzzby

Is SWIM an alcoholic? Some of this sounds like complications from alcoholism.

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Aoffke

SWIM drinks regularly now, usually a few beers every night. More on weekends. SWIM has had liver function tests done, and they are all fine.

But SWIM barely drank at all before all of this started. Maybe once a week or two weeks. SWIM begain drinking more to compensate for the inability to use THC.

SWIM has tried not drinking for a month, but none of the THC symptoms went away. Some of the gastric issues could be alcohol related, I'm not sure what constitutes being an "alcoholic", but if drinking most days means "alcoholic", then perhaps he is one now?

weedidas

Just looked over it fast but sound's like it could be something nuerological rather then physical. Maybe have SWIM (wtf is that a name or something? and why all the 3rd person) get a cardiogram and ultrasound for his heart to make sure there are no problems there.

shibshib

This was so confusing, at first I thought he was having pains after swimming.

I guess I'll leave this large chunk of text to you non-dyslexics

 

Aoffke

Thanks for the responses.

SWIM = someone who isn't me.

chadwick

since the symptoms have occurred while not high than THC is not the cause but is adding to his pain sensitivity, also the fact that when he doesnt think about his condition and nothing happens points to it possibly being all in his head, a more unlikely cause but still possible would be if he has developed an allergy to MJ if so than SWIM would be the first person i have heard of developing this allergy but you can develop an allergy from over exposer and some bad luck, but since the symptoms happened while not high unless someone around him was blazing he would not have had the effect


SWIM should probably stop smoking until it is discovered what is wrong with him/her, unfortunately many countries will not allow the research of MJ, if you live in Canada or the Netherlands than you have a better shot of figuring it out, if not than try your best

Dark

EDIT: Nevermind I'm sorry. My questions were answered in your post already

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StonedImmaculate21

I have an anxiety disorder and have had these exact symptoms. I've done a lot of research on the subject (my doctor called it neurotic, I call it being thorough) and this sounds like classic anxiety disorder.

What your friend needs to do is see a doctor and tell him everything that's been going on, no symptom excluded. The doctor may run some tests to rule out any other possible causes, then, barring any non-psychological problems, will begin treating him for the anxiety disorder. If the Celexa (Citalopram HBr) isn't working for him, the doctor may increase his dose or switch him to another medication. I take Lexapro (Escitalopram) and it works wonders for me. Same thing with the Xanax (Alprazolam), your friend may need a larger dose or a stronger benzodiazepine like Clonazepam or Diazepam.

Tell your friend that if the doctor tells him there are no physical complications, to trust the diagnosis and focus on healing himself psychologically. I wasted a lot of time worrying about the doctors (because I saw several) being wrong, because I didn't believe the symptoms were purely psychological. I know a lot of these seem like weird symptoms for a psychological disorder, but these things can manifest in odd ways.

Feel free to PM me if you need any more information.

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Feel free to add me at my MySpace page.
And my band page.

dnbjedi

Hi, SWIM understands what you are going through quite well...

SWIM has been experiencing something like what your friend has for years, sans the gastointestinal/heartburn things (which are, in my opinion related to something else?...) SWIM believes that some people are more naturally sensitive to substances, especially the one in question. Over the years swim has had his share of horrific anxiety attacks, and trips to the hospital.

However, swim would look at the situation it seemed that quitting was the only way. Over the past years swim has learned to control the anxiety response to thc, but its is a delicate control and falters. Swim believes that if he continue to use thc his body becomes less susceptible to the anxiety trigger that THC causes. However if SWIM quits for a month or two and tries it again he sometimes has had dehabilitating panic attacks that are.. quite painful and terrible. Swim doesnt know much from this point on because he hasnt been able to discontinue smoking long enough to find out.

swim also finds xanax to be fucking awesome in response to the anxiety trigger and it causes swim to feel "normal" albeit also at the whim of a benzodiazipine if this is taken ..."when needed"
(which is, .25-.50 a day, in order to keep the trigger in check)


using benzo's seems to help weaken the trigger from smoking also in a long term way.. like if you dont take a benzo for a day but you have taken them for a couple days then your resistance to an anxiety attack seems stronger, and you more in control.

in conclusion...! swim thinks that some individuals who are more susceptible, must find a way to deal with this, anxiety trigger disorder... but yet this disorder MUST stem from swims reckless drug usage (which cannot be compared to other examples of reckless drug usage due to the differing height of susceptibility), and then to counter this disorder with another drug (benzo's) is putting a whole lot of non-progressive strain on swims body.

"all things in moderation"