Lurkerboy (T)

Hi, new to the forum and happy to be a vape user, but the only thing that scares me about cannabis is the proclaimed 'Amotivational Syndome': a creator of apathy, loss of effectiveness, and a diminished capacity or willingness to carry out complex long-term plans, ect ect.

What proof is there for or against Amotivational Syndrome?

Posted in topic "Marijuana Myths and Facts (WORTH READING)", 4marijuana20 posts:

"Myth: Marijuana causes Amotivational Syndrome. Marijuana makes users passive, apathetic, and uninterested in the future. Students who use marijuana become underachievers and workers who use marijuana become unproductive.

Fact: For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first."

That post opposes the existence of Amotivational Syndrome. Here is a piece that suggests its existance:

From the book "Drugs and Behavior" written by William A. McKim. Chapter 15, "Cannabis", pages 301-302:

"It has sometimes been observed that when a young person starts smoking marijuana, systematic-changes occur in that person's lifestyle, ambitions, motivation, and, possibly, personality. These changes have been collectively referred to as the Amotivational Syndrome. Its symptoms are apathy, loss of effectiveness, and a diminished capacity or willingness to carry out complex long-term plans, endure frustration, concentrate for long periods, follow routines, or successfully master new material. Verbal facility is often impaired both in speaking and writing.
Such individuals exhibit greater introversion, become totally involved with the present at the expense of future goals, and demonstrate a strong tendency towards regressive, childlike, magical thinking (McGlothlin & West, 1968, p. 372).
There is no doubt that many young individuals have changed from clean, aggressive, upwardly mobile achievers into the sort of person just described above at about the same time they started smoking marijuana. What is not clear, however, is a casual relationship between the loss of middle-class motivations and cannabis.
Evidence for the existence of an amotivational syndrome, however, has been found in the experiment described earlier (in a previous section of writing) in which rhesus monkeys were exposed to the smoke of marijuana cigarettes every year (Silkker et al., 1992). These monkeys pressed a lever for banana-flavoured food pellets on a progressive ratio schedual. Each time the pellet was recieved, the ratio requirement increased and more presses were required. Silkker and associates found that during exposure to marijuana smoke, breaking points were considerably lower than they were for controls, and they returned to normal when exposure to the smoke was discontinued. Thus, the monkeys exposed to marijuana smoke were not as willing to work hard for an attractive food as non-exposed monkeys. Because the animals responded normally on other tasks for the same food pellets, the researchers argued that this result was analogous to the amotivational syndrome seen in humans and was not a result of either loss of the ability to respond or loss of appetite.
Laboratory studies with humans have found no evidence of amotivational syndrome. The Mendelson experiment (1976), in which hospitalized volunteers worked on a operant task to earn money and marijuana for 26 days, showed that marijuana smoked did not influence the amount of work done by either the casual-user group or the heavy-user group; all remained motivated to earn and take home a significant amount of money in addition to the work they did for marijuana.
The issue is not settled, but it is curious that the only clear experimental evidence demonstrating a loss of motivation is from research with nonhumans. Even if there is no specific motivational effect, it is clear that cannabis affects attention and memory, and these are intellectual capacities usually considered necessary for success in educational institutions. Achievement motivation must be high indeed in any individual who combines high levels of cannabis use with a successful academic career. It is quite likely that the task requirements in an educational insititution are more similar to the progressive ratio schedule in the monkey experiment than they are to button pressing of research subjects on a hospital level research ward."

Oh my. That was a mouthful. And inconclusive. The article both promotes and denies the existence of the amotivational syndrome in humans, unfortunately, so no clear-cut answer is given.

So what is it? Does this "Amotivational Syndrome" exist in humans, or is it in fact fictional? What concerned me the most was the "diminished capacity or willingness to carry out complex long-term plans". Have any of you experienced any of these symptoms? Do you have counter-research to prove it wrong? Life experiences? Please post, I want to hear it all.

-T

PS: Wrote this thread because this is the only scary part of cannabis to me.

duckmn56

I find if I am "high" all the time every day all day I can become less productive in the sense that I simply enjoy life more.. However, when I need to get things done I just smoke less and honestly I am rarely ever "high" all the time. I actually have been using mj to treat my adhd for a couple months now.. My grades are better than average for my major and I am happier about life. I think my grades are going up got a 95 on my differential equations test, but I also got the average score on 2 other tests but they were poorly prepared for..to some extent so I was hoping for mercy.

I do find that it is nice to not vape at all for sometime too and my adhd symptoms dont seem to come back sometimes I see how long till they come back. Then just use medicine again when I need to.


So anitmotivational for me...can be...however like anything must be used responsibly; In fact my other meds even used responsibly made me go fucking nuts.

I am a full time student with 2 part time jobs I also am involved in student organizations on campus. So i got alot goin on..

Lurkerboy (T)

Nice, it's cool to hear from someone who uses MJ and has so much going their way. Thanks for replying.

LiveForMusic1827

I disagree with this, I think that people choose whether they wanna be lazy or not. Marijuana is not an addicting drug so people who smoke it arnt pressured into doing it....they want to. I set priorities for myself such as getting work done before smoking. This helps me to become productive and still be stoner.

Lurkerboy (T)

I fear what cannabis could do is this:

You want to make a long-term plan requiring a lot of effect because the end result will bring you a lot of joy. But y'know what else would bring you a shit load of joy in about 30 minutes? Smoking up. So you blaze instead of following your long term plan and the end result is you haven't achieved as much as you potentially could have in life.

I've painted this scene with broad strokes, obviously. Some people may find that they can do both. EASY. But what about the majority? What's more likely to happen to the Average Joe?

duckmn56

I consider myself to be pretty average....

I have done poorly in my life....

This was becuase of issues I am not gonna talk about but I smoked and drank.

I know exactly what you mean with your brushstrokes and I have done that path.

It is basically self control and addiction is something that affects everyone differently with different drugs. Mj to me is highly addictive as are stimulants and cigarettes. Alcohol not so much I actually dont even drink any more, but before I smoked I drank alot. Now I use the same self control I had with alcohol with mj. In that sense I mean I dont get high when I cant afford to, time and money wise.

Its all in your hands in this sense mj can be abused like any other drug. Your brushstrokes paint a picture of someone abusing mj. Also longterm goals suck. I honestly have the mentality about them that I know what I want now how do I get it. Then I set short term goals....

Buzzby

If I ever consider hiring rhesus monkeys, I'll be sure to drug-test them first.

I do find that marijuana users tend to be a little less materialistic than non-users. They're more interested in enjoying life and less interested in accumulating every toy in the world. Is that a bad thing? The life of the mind doesn't pollute, doesn't use a lot of energy, and doesn't add to greenhouse gases. If you don't "need" all the toys, then you don't have to spend 60 hours a week working to pay for them. I have a much more balanced life and live comfortably on a small fixed income because I don't need much in the way of "stuff".

If I had never been a marijuana user, I might well have bought into the materialistic scenario because, as far as I knew, it was the only game in town.

__________________

Lurkerboy (T)

Ah, Buzzby, I knew that your post would provide a great deal of insight. It's true: if you live to just enjoy life and not collect every toy, then you wouldn't use a lot of energy, produce as much greenhouse gases, ect, right? But wouldn't the ability to climb the ladder be useful for ending this drug war? Being a politcal figure takes a lot of work and planning, but then we could have one more pro-legalization politician or law maker. Or planning become a researcher (plenty of school for that) and explore cannabis to really prove the benifits or at least the lack of harm it causes? It's distressing to me that USING cannabis causes any changes in your motivation in life (and not just having your motives changed from your beliefs on cannabis or your research of cannabis). Whether it's a physiological effect (it changes your brain) or a psychological effect (you don't need long-term goals with so much short-term joy) doesn't matter.

Not that I'm saying I'd personally be a politician or a doctor (although I'm at the point in my life where I can choose to follow those paths), but wouldn't it be nice if the everyman reached higher to protect their right to smoke weed? Or maybe I'm putting too much faith in human potential.

Buzzby

Not being fully invested in the materialism trip in no way implies that a person is going to sit on his ass for the rest of his life contemplating his navel. I have professional degrees and 26 years as an IT professional under my belt. Prior to that I built houses and remodeled homes.

There are plenty of professionals who would support legalization. The problem is that the average cannabis user is completely indifferent to legalization. Only one quarter of one percent of the estimated number of cannabis users in this country have taken five minutes and spent $25 to join one of the major pro-legalization organizations. If a reasonable percentage of the people who use cannabis aren't ready to push for legalization, why would politicians listen to a few professionals?

National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML)

Marijuana Policy Project (MPP)

Drug Policy Alliance (DPA)

nornerator

Amotivational syndrome is just the word they use for the change in philosophy marijuana can bring about.

As others have mentioned I have noticed that marijuana users are in general less materialistic. Our economy is based on materialism...

I have never seen it have an effect on a persons motivation for life in general.

I have stoner friends who are in fact very lazy, these are people I have known my whole life, and let me tell you, they were super lazy before they smoked marijuana.

I am about to complete a degree in biochemistry, I have received awards for my academic achievement, including being named as the top biochemistry student at my university.

I have been vaporizing marijuana daily, for three years. If anything marijuana causes me to be more interested in my studies.

I have never experienced a negative affect from marijuana. It is my opinion that the minor negative effects people report arise from combustion of the marijuana. I do not experience short term memory loss (except directly after consumption), I do not experience loss of motivation, nor do I experience a loss of brain function.

I have experienced a loss in materialism...