squarepusher

just wanted to hear some responses or opinions on this piece from members of the forum here, from NIDA notes, 2005

NIDA - Publications - NIDA Notes - Vol. 20, No. 2 - Research Findings

McGruff

Could it be exposer to cannabis opens your thought and reasoning to the wonders and beauty as well as the injustices and corruption of this world? Suddenly the world is not a bed of roses. With eyes wide open the reality of their situation could be overwhelming.

Children should be taught that the injustices of the world are real and widespread at an early age. Long before puberty, so it is not a mental shock while going through hormone changes. My kids were told at a early age about the psychologically damaged predators (politicians, pedophiles, crooks, etc) who target the unsuspecting and weak. Their is no prejudice, they know assholes come in all occupations and colors.

It is unfortunate that the US Government has lost credibility through continued disinformation and propaganda.

With eyes wide open I doubt this study has any validity.

StandardProspect

Even if this study is true, it's just another reason to legalize. Regulating weed will help keep it out of the hands of children.

squarepusher

Both good points here should be considered

Cosmic_Smoke

What pisses me off about this, is they're trying to make it sound like if you smoke pot, you will have a greater chance of depression and suicide. This is absolutely not true. What is true, and has been known for a long time, is that if you have a predisposition to depression, then frequent marijuana use can trigger the depression. I for one find pot has anti depressant properties. Also, I skimmed through all that, they talk about "marijuana dependance" allot, and how some of the twins where diagnosed with that. To be diagnosed you obviously have to be taken somwhere like a rehab, which in its self is depressing. When I went to rehab a few years ago, they diagnosed me with marijuana dependance, and it would seem that the only critera was that I smoked pot, and my parents felt I should be in rehab. There are so many other reason why this study is anything but conclusive.

Yana Usdi

That's an article written by the NIDA, National Institute on Drug Abuse. Not what I'd call an unbiased source. I had an urge to follow that link to the abstract itself and they end with something worth noting I'd think.

Conclusions Comorbidity between cannabis dependence and MDD likely arises through shared genetic and environmental vulnerabilities predisposing to both outcomes. In contrast, associations between cannabis dependence and suicidal behaviors cannot be entirely explained by common predisposing genetic and/or shared environmental predispositions. Previously reported associations between early-onset cannabis use and subsequent MDD likely reflect shared genetic and environmental vulnerabilities, although it remains possible that early-onset cannabis use may predispose to suicide attempt.

Read that through carefully. They are attributing it mostly to predisposition, genetic and environmental factors. They only leave early use of cannabis as a possibility of a contributing factor, if it plays a part at all it's likely the smallest one. A line from the author of the study himself was buried near the end of it that's worth noting as well.

"Overall, the associations between marijuana abuse and depressive disorders suggest a relationship that is contributory but not necessarily causal. Depressive disorders in and of themselves do not cause people to abuse marijuana, and marijuana abuse and dependence do not of themselves cause depression or suicidal behavior," Dr. Lynskey says. "Nevertheless, clinicians treating patients for one disorder should take the other into account at initial assessment and throughout treatment.

Sounds to me like he's saying it's just another aspect that docs might want to be aware of as they evaluate patients, sounds reasonable enough to me. Not exactly the impression you get from the NIDA. You can't ask them for info about drugs any more than you'd go to the Klan for advice on race relations.

Second point. They don't define in the abstract a number of factors such as what constitutes long term cannabis dependence. Abuse is sometimes associated with depression be it abuse of pot, alcohol, or anything else. If what they are talking about is true abuse rather than use it might be accurate. I'd bet a twin study of ones who drank or had other outlets would be a lot worse.

On edit and after finding the full study, the full text of the study can be found at the following link.

Arch Gen Psychiatry -- Major Depressive Disorder, Suicidal Ideation, and Suicide Attempt in Twins Discordant for Cannabis Dependence and Early-Onset Cannabis Use, October 2004, Lynskey et al. 61 (10): 1026

Go to this particular part and it defines the methods. I'll quote a relevant section on how they define abuse.

Individuals reporting using cannabis at least monthly were questioned, using items from the Semi-Structured Assessment for the Genetics of Alcoholism (SSAGA),25 about whether they had experienced symptoms of cannabis dependence (using more frequently/for longer periods than intended; needing larger amounts to achieve an effect [tolerance]; continued use despite use causing emotional problems; recurrent desire to cut down on use). Those reporting 2 or more of these criteria were classified as meeting lifetime criteria for cannabis dependence.

I have no problem with this study under those terms. I can't speak to its accuracy but I see no bias. That meets the criteria for depression associated abuse and that is what causes the problems. Not the pot as the NIDA article would like us to read from it. As the doctor who performed the study himself said "Depressive disorders in and of themselves do not cause people to abuse marijuana, and marijuana abuse and dependence do not of themselves cause depression or suicidal behavior".

__________________
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TC Connoisseur

personally i believe marijuana has helped my through some of the roughest times of my life times were suicide did pop up as an alternative but were quickly stifled when i was high because i realized i still had lots to live for so in my personal opinion and experience marijuana does not increase the chances of suicide, and yes ive been smoking since way before i was 17, and no none of my friends have committed suicide or been depressed, to my knowledge atleast

KillerWeed420

Yeah in all these case studies the most important part of the equation is who paid for the study.

Yana Usdi

With an honest scientist, and most are or they'd be out of the field quick, it doesn't matter so much who financed the study. What should matter more is who interprets it. If you read back through our fights so far they told us for years that Donald P. Tashkin of the UCLA Medical Center had been warning us of cancer and marijuana, they (the press and drug control agencies) took it as fact. Only problem is that's not what the doc had ever said, it's just what we read into it for him. We need to stop asking the press to check things for us, they are either incompetent or unwilling, and we need to check things for ourselves.

Jack Herer talked with Dr. Tashkin a few times in the course of his research and the doc wasn't at all charitable to our press and their abuse of his work. Go to the following page and scan down for the section titled "How Rumors Get Started" and it covers a little of this. It's a free online version of Jack Herer's book The Emperor Wears No Clothes. This was written before his study that proved that it does not lead to cancer.

Jack Herer - Chapter 15

The study above seems fine to me, a key point was near the end of the article. The lead doc listed as study author said among other things "Overall, the associations between marijuana abuse and depressive disorders suggest a relationship that is contributory but not necessarily causal." If you're depressed and you find refuge in something constructive it can help, if you hide from your problems it can hurt. You can hide from them in any number of ways, from video game addiction to alcohol or other drug abuse. The drug, or whatever else, was "contributory but not necessarily causal". It was a poor choice as a way to deal with the problem but it didn't cause the problem.

We just need to read and check things for ourselves. Scientists for the most part don't sell out to the highest bidder, the person interpreting the report might twist it into a lie but the reports themselves are generally sound if you know what you're looking for and are willing to look.