IBoogie00

I just read about this in another forum? What is it? Do we need it? How does pot affect it? thanks if u can help.

Greenbud

REM sleep is when you enter a deeper stage of sleep. This is when you dream. Your eyes may also move rapidly underneath your eyelids. REM stands for Rapid Eye Movement. Studies have shown that if someone is awakened each time they go into the REM stage for several days, they begin to hallucinate and have psychotic episodes. So, yes, we do need it. It is vitally important to our lives.

As far as pot affecting it, I know I have some pretty vivid dreams when I fall asleep high. I don't think it's detrimental to REM sleep though.

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fanatic4488

You couldn't be more mistaken about your reply about REM sleep. THC, the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, has been shown to decrease the latency of stages 3 and 4 of sleep, as well as decrease the latency or, oftentimes, altogther eliminate the REM phase of sleep. Laboratory research has been very consistent on this particular adverse relationship since the 1970's, and has been replicated with rats, rabbits, cats, rhesus monkeys, and human beings (mostly college students). The implications for this finding are far-reaching. REM sleep is vital. It is the one point during the night in which your body's muscles and tissues are most at rest. Because of this, the bulk of your tissue & cell repair is done during this phase. It is the immune system's most effective time to work. REM is also vital for the consolidation of short-term memory into long-term memory (remember that chronic marijuana users do not perform as well on task associated with short-term memory as non-users or occasional recreational users). REM is also when the bulk of your dreams happen, and dreams are most vivid durinig this phase (remember the memory consolidation). I recently completed a brief summary of modern research on this topic for the University of South Florida and would be glad to email it to you if you'd like.

Higher Logic

I dream like crazy when I smoke cannabis *shrug*

Moving to "Chemical & Physiological"

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Zilos

haha, same here!

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Buzzby

Consider the possibility that the consumption of Marijuana may eliminate some of the need for REM sleep, which is why users produce less of it.

I have a neurological disorder that causes me to generate too much REM activity. I start dreaming as soon as I hit the pillow and don't stop all night. I wake up exhausted because I never get the deep dreamless sleep in which most people spend most of their nights. During the day I run a dream on a parallel track to waking consciousness. If I stare at a white wall I can see my dreams projected on it. If I close my eyes I can be asleep and dreaming in a couple of minutes, even if I've just gotten up.

I find that smoking is very beneficial. If I smoke in the evening and go to bed high I get a lot more deep sleep and wake up a lot less tired.

It's too bad I don't live in CA. I could probably get a MM card.

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fanatic4488

More specifics:

fanatic4488

It was my assumption that the responses I would get would be attempts to rebutt the research. After all, this is a site for marijuana users. And the last 5 years I have worked with marijuana addicts, I have learned that any and all attempts will be made to rationalize and justify further use. I also know that the last one to perceive the connection between their use and the effects, even if it is clear to others. I can assure you that no drug can eliminate the need for REM sleep. That would be like saying a drug can eliminate the need for food and water. Here, to help get a clearer picture of marijuana's effects on the sleep cycle, here is part of my recent review on the research:

Introduction
Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug in the United States and is particularly common among young adults. In 2003, 57% of young adults (ages 19-28) who participated in the national Monitoring the Future (MTF) Study reported marijuana use at least once in their lifetime, and seventeen percent reported use within the last 30 days. Since so many young adults are potentially effected by marijuana use, research of the effects of marijuana use may be considered important. One area of marijuana research that has been explored since the 1970s is the effect of delta-9-tetrahydracannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, on sleep patterns (Florida Alcohol & Drug Abuse Association [FADAA], 2001). This paper summarizes some of the major research on this area from the 1970s to the present day.

Overview of the Sleep Cycle
Before exploring the effect of THC on sleep patterns, a brief review of the human sleep cycle may be helpful. Humans sleep in 5 different stages, differentiated primarily by brain wave patterns measured by electroencephalograph (EEG). Just prior to falling asleep, the typical person is in a relaxed state of consciousness characterized by alpha waves (a frequency of 8 to 12 waves per second). Just after falling asleep, phase 1 of the sleep cycle begins, during which brain activity is still fairly high but declining. Stage 2 is characterized by sleep spindles (12-to 14-Hz waves during a burst that lasts at least half a second) and K-complexes (sharp high-amplitude negative wave followed by a smaller, slower positive wave). The 3rd and 4th stages of sleep are known as slow-wave sleep (SWS). During SWS, heart rate, breathing rate, and brain activity slow down and the percentage of slow, large-amplitude waves increases. After stage 4, a person cycles back through stages 3 and 2. However, instead of returning to stage 1, the person enters a stage of sleep known as rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. REM sleep (also known as “paradoxical sleep”) is characterized by irregular, low-voltage fast brain waves. Despite this considerable degree of brain activity, the postural muscles of the body are more relaxed than at any other stage of sleep. Dreams are more vivid, intricate, and somewhat more frequent during this stage of sleep. Short-memory is consolidated into long-term memory. Since muscles are most relaxed during REM sleep, the body is best able to repair cells, and this function is vital to the immune system (Farthing, 1992; Kalat, 2001).

THC’s effect on SWS and REM sleep stages
Several studies have examined the effect of THC on SWS and REM sleep stages. In one of the earliest studies, rats injected with THC experienced induced bursts of polyspikes (on electrocortigram) just prior to stage 1 sleep. The polyspikes appeared again, overriding totally or partially the REM sleep stages (Masur & Khazan, 1970). Fujimori & Himwich (1973) found that THC caused a decrease in the number of REM sleep episodes in rabbits. By the third day of abstinence, the REM sleep cycle of the rabbits had returned to normal. Moreton & Davis (1973) measured the effect of THC on sleep cycles for both rats that were previously deprived of REM sleep and rats not REM-deprived, finding decreased SWS and REM sleep and increased wakefulness in rats injected with THC. Deniker, Ginestat, Etevenon, & Peron-Magnon (1975) found results verifying earlier research, with the added contribution of demonstrating that THC, when isolated from cannabis, has the same effect on sleep cycles as cannabis itself. The adverse impact of THC on SWS and REM sleep was noted in cats by Fairchild, Jenden, Mickey, & Yale (1979) and again in rats by Buonamici, Young, & Khazan (1982). Freemon (1982) conducted a study using two 23 and 25-year-old brothers, who slept in a laboratory for 27 nights and, following a 4 night break, 4 additional nights. THC administration and placebo administration was provided for both brothers alternately. The subjects experienced a decrease in SWS and REM sleep, and REM sleep had returned to normal about one week after abstinence from THC. However, it should be noted that the sample size for that study was very small. While examining the suspected anticonvulsant properties of 3 different cannabinoids on rats, Colasanti, Lindamood, & Craig (1982) found that both THC and delta-8-tetrahydracannibinol reduced REM sleep.

In the next decade of marijuana research, administration of THC was again found to decrease SWS and virtually eliminate REM stages in 11 cannabis naïve subjects aged 21 to 25 years (Tassinari, Ambrosetto, Peraita-Adrado, & Gestaut, 1999). However, Nicholson, Turner, Stone, & Robson (2004) found no effect of THC on nocturnal sleep on the first night of administration, unless administered in combination with cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive cannabinoid. Stage 3 sleep was decreased and wakefulness was increased in a group of 8 healthy 21-34-year-old subjects. However, THC administration by itself did reduce sleep latency on the 2nd day of administration.

Despite the research demonstrating THC’s tendency to decrease SWS and REM stage sleep, there is no shortage of individuals who claim that cannabis actually improves human sleep. Such individuals have cited a few sporadic studies that seem to them to confirm this hypothesis. For example, THC ingestion was actually found to decrease measures of sleep apnea (a breathing disorder that decreases restfulness) in rats by polysomonography analysis. However, this study did not examine the impact of THC on SWS or REM stages (Carley, Paviovic, Janelidze, & Radulovacki, 2002). Although it is possible that THC is effective in treating sleep apnea, the research is limited, and this possible relationship does not say anything about sleep quality. Sleep latency has also been examined for administration of THC in combination with sedative substances. For example, THC has been found to prolong pentobarbitone-induced sleep (Paton &Pertwee, 1972; Siemens et al., 1974) and ethanol- and hexobarbital-induced sleep (McCoy, Brown, & Forney, 1978). However, once again, the effect of THC on SWS and REM stages was not explored. Cannabidnol has been demonstrated to significantly decrease wakefulness and decrease SWS without significantly modifying REM sleep time (Siemens, 1974; Monti, 1977; Tassinari, Ambrosetto, Peraita-Adrado, & Gestaut, 1999). However, cannabidiol should not be confused with THC. Cannabidiol is not psychoactive and does not produce a “high,” nor does it bind to cannabinoid receptor sites (Mechoulam, Parker, & Gallily, 2002). Delta-8-tetrahydracannabinol has been found to induce sedation, enhance 12-hertz burst activity, and decrease the number of REM sleep episodes, while lengthening each REM episode, suggesting clinically useful sedative-hypnotic properties of this cannabinoid (Wallach & Gershon, 2002). However, delta-8-tetrahydracannabinol should not be confused with delta-9-tetrahydracannabinol (THC). One study, however, has resulted in the conclusion that THC significantly stabilizes respiration during all sleep stages, thus minimizing the adverse symptoms of sleep apnea. The suspected mechanism for this effect was cited as THC’s serotonin-inhibiting qualities (Carley, Paviovic, & Radulovacki, 2002). However, replications are needed to confirm these conclusions, and the possibility that THC stabilizes respiration does not say anything about sleep quality per se. Also, Rosenkrantz, Fleischman, & Grant (1981) have found that that THC actually caused dyspnea (breathing discomfort or significant breathlessness), among other health complications, in rhesus monkeys, adding some controversy to the equation. Page (1983), while conducting a correlational study on amotivational syndrome in marijuana users, did not find a difference in sleep EEG patterns between marijuana users and non-users in his Costa Rican sample. However, this does not appear to be a well-controlled experiment.

Other Effects of THC on Sleep
The combination of THC ingestion, stress, and REM deprivation has been shown to result in increased aggression in rats (Carlini, Lindsey, & Tufik, 1971; Carlini, 1977). In addition to adversely effecting SWS and REM cycles, withdrawal from THC use also appears to contribute to sleep problems. The 8 subjects in a study summarized in the preceding section experienced reduced sleep latency and changes in mood the day after THC ingestion (Nicholson, Turner, Stone, & Robson, 2004). Two subjects in the study conducted by Freemon (1982), summarized in the preceding section, experienced difficulty falling and staying asleep for the first 2 nights following a switch from THC ingestion to placebo ingestion. This 2 –day effect was also noted in the rats used by Colasanti, Lindamood, & Craig (1982) in the study noted in the previous section. Difficulty falling and staying asleep and restlessness was noted in 3 studies a few days after abstinence for both people who smoked marijuana and orally ingested THC (Budney, Moore, Vandrey, & Hughes, 2003; Haney et al., 1998a; Haney et al., 1998b). In addition to being commonly cited as a symptom of cannabis withdrawal, sleep disturbance and insomnia are often listed as an effect of long-term cannabis use (e.g. Beers, 2003; FADAA, 2001; Falkowski, 2000; Gold, 1989; Inaba & Cohen, 2003).

Discussion
The bulk of research in this area has demonstrated that THC has a negative impact on sleep quality both during use and during withdrawal, although much of it is outdated (1970s and 1980s) and more recent research is needed. Adolescence and early adulthood are regarded as periods of intense change. For some, these changes include transition to college, establishing a career, and independent living (Santrock, 1999). Young adults, especially students, often do not get adequate sleep. College students who report less sleep tend to not be as satisfied with life (Kelly, 2004). Stress, a lack of sleep, and substance abuse can lead to other problems for college students, including depression (Voelker, 2004). Given THC’s adverse impact on sleep quality, it can be concluded that avoidance of THC use would be an advantage for young adults.


Hope this is helpful.

BudSpud

Of the information that I have learned in a Marijuana class, the area of the brain that interrprets dreams is in the Hippocampus near the back of the brain, where short term memory resides. Regular use of Marijuana produces a build-up of THC in the Hippocampus resulting in less dreaming. I have recently been put on probation (thus the Marijuana class) and cannot smoke anymore. I have dreamt more vividly with greater memory of each dream than ever while smoking. As far as the 'need' for REM sleep I don't know, but my guess is that it still happens, we just dont always remember our dreams.

fanatic4488

You are right (sort of). The hippocampus plays a major role in storing SOME kinds of memory (although it doesn't do it by itself). THC molecules bind to CB-1 receptor sites in this brain structure. When THC binds to these receptor sites, it prevents other chemcial messengers from traveling through these neurons. That is why we see poor performance in people who are high on weed when it comes to functions that are associated with the hippocampus. Take, for example, the difficulty someone who is high has with short-term memory. The problem is that for many long-term, chronic marijuana users, they eventually start to actually damage or even kill of these neurons, so that their impaired performance lasts long after the high is gone. However, I don't want to misrepresent the truth...we're talking long-term, heavy users, not the occasional experimenters or recreational users. Also, your report of more vivid dreams after you began abstaining is consistent with the reports of many of the cannabis-naive subjects who ingested THC during some of these sleep experiences. In some studies, subjects were woken up during different stages of sleep (as measured by electroencephalogram), and they recounted their dreams. When under the influence of THC, these subjects were not able to verablize as much dream activity as the non-using and placebo groups. Now, dreams don't complete vanish permanently just cuz you use marijuana...they lessen, and they lessen because REM stages is when the bulk of dreams occur (but not all). Also, REM stage dreams are more vivid and involve more intricate plots and details than stage 3 and 4 (slow-wave sleep, or SWS) dreams.

As far as those who are making attempts to rationalize their marijuana use because they have a need to decrease REM sleep, I would advise that you look into more viable alternatives such as cannabidinol, which is not psychoactive, does not induce a high, is not habit-forming, and does not cause the kinds of adverse effects caused by marijuana. Moreover, it will not damage CB-1 site neurons, because it doesn't even bind to cannabinoid receptor sites. Furthermore, it is much more effective with sleep regulation (at least in research so far) than marijuana. There is no need to continue smoking weed for sleep regulation given the viable alternatives. Consult your physician.