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notralph

This is my very first post, and unfortunately it's very long. I would really appreciate some constructive advice, particularly from anyone with some medical background. I have been experiencing psychotic episodes which seem related to marijuana use.

I have smoked off and on for about three years, but recently (August) I went through a period where I was smoking nearly every day, often two or three times a day, very heavily. I cut back slightly for a few weeks, but was bedridden with what I thought was a kidney infection in October. I smoked what I have to admit was an 'irresponsible' amount of marijuana, compared to my usual consumption, every day for ten or twelve days. (Dealing with boredom and experimenting. This was one of the first times I had access to a ready supply of marijuana.)

I began to hear voices, which I was convinced were the astral projections of people I knew, and people in my vincinity. (I was working with a group of people, at the time, who embraced these beliefs.) These included hearing rape incidents, sadomasochistic activity, and other people who claimed to hear these voices and were being persecuted, as well as day-to-day events. I had never experienced anything like this before, and was only hearing them while I was stoned. I was so enthralled with these voices, and so convinced that real people needed my help, that I continued to smoke copious amounts, and in fact increased my consumption, while bedridden and sensory deprived.

(Nobody needs to tell me that this was a bad idea... but I did it. Too late!!)

Quickly these voices overtook my life and resulted in delusional and altered behaviour. I chose to cut back, but had these experiences every time I smoked thereafter. I quit marijuana to see what the effect of doing so would be, as it was suggested to me by a psychiatrist that these voices were the result of toxic buildup of antibiotics and marijuana, and chronic UTI. I entirely altered my diet, also taking into account the possibility of a toxic level of full-body yeast, and adjusted my sleep schedule. I quit my job to recuperate.

I tried a very, very small amount of marijuana a few weeks later, and experienced voices again, but this time was aware that they were originating from me, and were representative of different issues and perspectives of my own. The voices then stopped. I have gotten high once since, with some very limited trouble with voices. I have had ongoing trouble since this incident with general anxiety and anxiety attacks, and mild paranoia, as well as a interest in, and mild discomfort with, ambient noise. The rhythmn of these voices seems to be based on the rhythmn of small ambient noises (running water, computer fans, static).

I am now hearing voices again, but have not smoked any marijuana in 40 days. This coincides with taking a new full-time, physically strenous job. I am wondering if it is possible that burning stored fat could release stored marijuana back into the blood stream, recreating these problems, or if anyone knows how to tell if audio hallucinations are caused by kidney failure, as I am experiencing some pain, and if so, if marijuana could have exagerated these symptoms initially. Any other possibilities are welcome. I am wondering about the possibility of schizophrenia with MJ as a trigger, or the possibility that this batch was laced. (How can I tell? I have some in the freezer.)

I know the issue of withdrawl is very under debate, but some people do experience some symptoms when quitting, regardless of cause. Has anyone else experienced auditory hallucinations associated with this?

I'm sorry this is so long... I've been doing lots of research and I'm not getting anywhere. My doctor is useless because he is so busy - I basically need to know what I have before I go to him. I have chosen not to continue seeing a psychiatrist at this time, because he greatly increases my anxiety level.

Someone, if you can, please help.

 

teufelfisch

Keep in mind that I am just a chemist, and know relatively little about psychology or medicine.

There has been some research done that shows a relationship between certain molecules that are naturally found in the brain and schizophrenia. Schizophrenics have more of a fatty acid derivative, called anandamide, than healthy people. Some psychologists believe it's a way to compensate for a different disorder-- in other words, anandamide levels raise in response to the schizophrenia. However, no one is completely sure about the cause.

The link to marijuana is that anandamide activates the same receptors as THC. The activation of these receptors is what makes you high.

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aposiopesis

Hi Notralph,
It is believed that marijuana can trigger psychotic episodes in people who are susceptible. I gave up for three months, to test this effect. The frequency of delusions may have reduced slightly, but the really devastating episodes have more often occurred after an extended period of time of non-smoking.

Different drugs affect different people differently. Marijuana may have a positive, negative or neutral effect on your ability to maintain a happy functional life. Having an extended period of time off, in excess of three months will probably help determine whether marijuana triggers negative effects, if so steer clear of it. If not there may be other triggers. Stress, crowds, lack of exercise, poor diet and excessive exposure to negative stimuli (ie newscasts, kill your television) are big ones for me. Marijuana relaxes me, voices sometimes still mutter in the background, but it’s not problematic. Maybe many small episodes might release some psychotic steam, and thus prevent big blow outs?

Once you know what may trigger a psychotic state, you may be able to avoid repeats. Physical illness is often likely to have a negative effect on psychological health. Its good to look after your health, and supplement any medical treatment with a good diet and appropriate exercise. I think an hour of vigourous exercise everyday is my miracle medication. All the stress hormones that build up are processed, and happy chemicals like endorphins are released by the brain. It makes a huge difference for me. A lot of unprocessed healthy food also has a good effect on my mental state.

It is worthwhile to heal unresolved emotional issues, they make psychoses much more negative and overwhelming. Everyone accumulates emotional baggage, and sometimes the past can cause pain in the present. The delusions may still occur, but a more peaceful and happy mind creates more benign hallucinations, and if not, you have more self understanding and can thus manage them effectively. I don’t think it matters how you choose to approach to heal your bruised psyche, if you genuinely want to achieve a peaceful mind, and persevere, you will.

Talking openly to someone you trust and feel confident with can be miraculously therapeutic, an external perspective can be valuable for many reasons. If your psychiatrist makes you uncomfortable, it is unlikely you can talk to him openly, so there is little point in seeing him. Counsellors, I have found on the whole, choose their profession because of a genuine desire to help people, psychiatrists may be drawn to their profession by prestige or money. It might help to shop around a bit to find someone you are comfortable talking to and who you feel has a genuine desire to help you achieve peace of mind. I find meditation is very effective, my friend taught me a Buddhist meditation I can use quite effectively when cacophonous black shadows engulf me.

You are accepting the hallucinations as a product of your own mind, I think half the battle is won in that realization. Your doctor sounds about as useful as tits on a bull, doctors who genuinely care about the welfare of their patients are around, perhaps one of your friends or family could recommend a good one? Finding out the medical details of what you are experiencing can make it much less scary and confusing. Psychotic episodes are a feature of several different illnesses, with different accompanying symptoms, the more you know, the better equipped you are to deal with it.

If symptoms persist, the prognosis is not all bad. I live a very happy life riddled with audio hallucinations. They mutter away at me from time to time, but are not so intense it interferes with my life or happiness. I actually quite enjoy the voices now, they are mostly benign, now, or if dark, I can turn them around. I smoke pot, and it seems to me it has a therapeutic effect, it’s a new perspective. All things considered I’m quite happy to be a mental case.

I think the most important things are maintaining the best physical health possible, exercise, diet and physical and emotional healing, and a lot of support from people who care about you. Smoke marijuana if it feels beneficial, and don’t if it feels detrimental.

All the best physical and psychological health and happiness.

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notralph

Thank you so much for the really awesome advice, especially from aposiopesis. You think the way I do, and you're the only person I found who shared my viewpoint on how to deal with the issue. You made a real difference in a rough spot, really balanced me.

Fortunately (sort of), it seems that most of my symptoms are the result of a severely toxic buildup of antibiotics in my system. The pot certainly amplified the symptoms, and accelerated the toxicity in my system, but it doesn't seem to be the problem.

Everything is slowly settling down, and I can smoke again, with great care, once in a while. Just warning everyone that flouroquinolines (such as Ciprofloxacin) have some very nasty side effects that Bayer may have seriously downplayed. There is a class action suit in the States as a result of this. I've found that marijuana makes the psychotic side effects *very* unpleasant. Anyone with a sensitive system should be very careful about mixing MJ with antibiotics, and I would strongly advise against taking this particular class of medication at all, if you can.

Thanks again. Things are uphill from here.

Mamabudz

Thank you for reporting back you findings --

and aposiopesis...you dah dude...

...have a cookie

Mama Budz

 

aposiopesis

Thanks Notralph and Mamabudz
I'm glad things are on the up & up.

I didn't have a stab at those questions before, because most of my understanding about THC being stored in fat is hearsay. But I googled anandamide, and I reckon Teufelfish is on the money there. Huge levels of anamdamide in schizophrenics led to the supposition that it may moderate delusions. THC is chemically similar to anandamide, and binds to the same CB1 receptors, possibly performing the same function. THC has a higher affinity for CB1 receptors than anandamide, causing speculation anandamide may struggle to fill THC's shoes, when it's use is discontinued. So delusions may run a bit more rampant on discontinuing marijuana in those so disposed. Normals are, I believe unaffected. See what you think, my interpretation of how it works is here.

Your herb was in all probability not laced, other drugs are expensive, so lacing is not a very economically viable practice for a supplier.

Peace, health and happiness,
aposio

kim93079

I am an Rn and in my experiences Cipro and every other antibiotic is clearly marked with ALL side effects, the only problem is that unless you have a medical background the info is not readily available to the public. Every medicine is prescribed with the intention that the potential benefits are worth the risk of side effects ranging from mild-death. Scary but true. Most antibiotics have the potential to be damaging to ears and kidneys. That is why your nurse asks if you take any other meds or use recreational drugs because of possible drug interactions, but hey I don't tell my doc either because you just never know lol.

As far as the voices you could be experiencing what is called drug induced schizophrenia. I don't have all the info at hand but look around it is an actual condition but is usually associated with recreational drugs other than weed.

I hope some of this helps, I'm a little high right now so I may have rambled a little LOL
By the way knowing what i have learned in school, I don't take any prescription drugs unless I HAVE to ans I smoke every day. In my clinical experience it is much safer than any pill you put in your mouth.

greypoe

Schizophrenia is linked to high anandamide levels? I know racing thoughts is a symptom of schizophrenia. I notice sometimes after smoking my thoughts tend to race. I remember things that happened days, weeks, or years ago and my imagination goes wild. Is high anandamide levels linked to (more brain activity) racing thoughts, and enhanced imagination?

There are times when I smoke, where I 'hear' subconscious voices. This only happens when Im very relaxed and about to fall asleep. If I close my eyes these noises and voices will turn into a dream.