Marijuana.com

Budd8089

I've noticed quite a few threads on this, and while most people seem to think it's the person, and not the marijuana, it makes me wonder.

So how many of you are clinically depressed, or just on antidepressants for various reasons? That's everything from anti-anxiety meds to Prozac to Bipolar meds, whatever. And how many of you have had bad highs when you are mega-stressed and a wee bit depressed or sad? MJ is usually known for gettin' ya mellow, but it seems to have the adverse effect, some times.

The only reason I bother coming on here and airing my dirty laundry is because I did love smoking up, sitting down, eating pizza and watching a flick. It made me HAPPY, something that is RARE. For whatever reason, out of the blue, it seems, my highs have gone from just stupid "laugh-feel-good"highs to "jump out the window cause I've suddenly turned into a fuggin' schitzo" highs.

I'm lucky enough to be Bipolar, and as said...the past few times I've smoked up I've felt worse than I ever have. So I'm taking a break, but damn I wish I could just smoke a bowl and chill.

One thing I'll note is that things have been getting worse with the mood swings with me lately when I'm SOBER. At first I looked to the MJ, but of course, it's not going to cause such things. The more intelligent observation would be that I was feeling bad in the first place, and smoking the MJ just kinda highlighted it.

Still, I'd like to know how this drug interacts with those of us who aren't in too cheery of a disposition.

 

Budd8089

Also: you might want to give this a read. Check this out, Mamabudz. This first part kinda scared me.

"
Toxic Psychosis

A one year prospective study in Sweden, 1980 to 1981, by Palsson et al. evaluated eleven patients with a genuine cannabis-induced psychosis who were admitted to two mental hospitals. Patients with any history of pre-existing psychosis or multiple substance abuse were excluded. The features of the disorder were similar in all eleven patients, with a mixture of affective and schizophrenic-like symptoms, such as depression, anxiety, auditory hallucinations, delusions, confusion and frequently marked aggressiveness. The symptoms were similar, but the duration of the psychosis varied. Of the eleven patients, the duration of the psychosis was less than 2 months in four cases, in 6 cases a more prolonged transitory course of psychosis developed, and in one patient after four years his symptoms had not fully resolved."

FOUR YEARS? Jesus!

"These groups corresponded well to what Granville-Grossman (1978) calls acute, subacute and chronic cannabis psychosis. The authors noted that diagnostically the cases resembled cycloid psychosis. However, they differed in the following respects 1) cannabis psychosis had less explicit bipolarity of symptoms than cycloid psychosis; 2) more confusion than mood change was seen with cannabis psychosis; 3) there was a less pronounced family history with the cannabis group (1/11); and 4) more aggressiveness and destruction was observed with cannabis. The 11 reported cases in the Swedish study have a symptomatology closely consistent with that reported elsewhere in the literature (Bernhardson and Gunne 1972). In all the cases, there is an intensification of the abuse during weeks or months preceding the psychosis. The patients with subacute, recurrent symptoms have without exception precipitated their symptoms by relapse into cannabis abuse. The course of the illness tends to be self-limiting and not dangerous as long as the patient does not sustain injury as a result of his disorientation. No medication is usually indicated in toxic psychosis. However, some physicians have used antipsychotics, antidepressants and ECTs depending on the severity and duration of the psychosis.


Depressive Reactions

In novice marijuana users, rarely in regular users, marijuana may precipitate reactive or neurotic depressions. The majority of depressive reactions are of short duration and end spontaneously, as noted in studies by Weil (1970) and Kemp (1970).

Panic Reactions

The majority of all adverse responses to marijuana are panic reactions in which people begin to fear that they are dying or losing their minds. Panic reactions, or "bad trips", may become so severe as to be incapacitating and may stimulate an acute psychotic state. These reactions appear to vary in frequency depending on the environment or setting that the individual becomes intoxicated in (Weil 1970). Smith (1981) reports that roughly 50% of marijuana smokers in the United States have on some occasion experienced this adverse reaction. Treatment of these panic reactions is simple patient observation in a non-stimulatory environment (Weil 1970). "

Mamabudz

Hi Lep

First: Yes, i have had bad highs...and yes, I am personally familiar with meds for depression and currently for Bi-polar.

I have been where you are now and I know there is a way out. I have also lost friends to suicide, one very close friend and it is in his memory that I do all in my power to alert my new firiends like you to the strides made in psychopharmacology that can treat this fatal illness and give us back our lives.

I read through the study...it is a bit out of date as they are quoting studies from 1978 in a paper that is 20 years old. Don't freak out on the findings. 20 years in psychiatric diagnosis is like 200 years in other forms of mediecine. The Diagnostic Manuals have ben updated 5 times since then ! And medication has come a long way.

Psychopharmacology (medication for disorders of the brain and mind) is a dynamic field and new information and treatments are being discovered literally, every month.

You might want to look up new studies on bi-polar disorder, formerly manic-depressive illness. Recently it has been discovered that this disorder responds well to treatment with anti-seizure medications. Prior to this time, lithium salts were the only treatment option.

Excellent results have been reported ...quickly and with few side effects with the treatment of Topamax and other medications used for epileptic seizures for the treatment of bi-polar disorder.

Hang in there and I am assuming you have gotten a diagnosis now?

Take a look at this link that tells more about what Bi-polar is. Click Here

Keep us updated on how things are going. Diagnosis is the first step to proper treatment.

With much love & hugz

Budd8089

New treatment may come out, yes, but our bodies still stay the same. The reason I posted that was because it rings a bell. Regardless of if you have a slight chemical imbalance or you're actually schizophrenic, it has a larger effect on you.

Sure, anybody probably would have guessed, but the tests they did are interesting enough. I see alot of people on here claiming they're depressed, and regardless of what's going on in their lives, it has apparently been proven to do exactly that: get you depressed.

I'm simply using myself as an example.
Would you say
a. the marijuana triggered it
b. I was just stressed out, and that triggered it
or
c. both caused the difference in my mood

Hurray for multiple choice.

I'm not going to say "if you're bipolar: don't smoke", cause I don't know! But it sure as hell is a rough ride, especially when you just want to be happy. And most of the time, MJ does exactly that.
I don't know what it is and nor does anybody else, but the fact I flipped out a couple of times and then my mood suddenly decided to jump from here to there makes sense, to me.

Still, I want to know how many people on here have had bad trips, not just the usual bit of paranoia. It obviously isn't a problem when every gangsta G is puffin it up, along with every highschool kid. If it made people that depressed nobody would be smoking it. Those that are clinically depressed, well, I bet that's a different story.

Thanks for the links. I've read quite a bit on it, read about all of the medications, and the sad truth is that if you want to be "normal" you'll end up dropping pills for the rest of your life. ****ty luck. I did nothing to deserve that, in fact, I've been a pretty kind person my entire life. And there's an ever-loving god somewhere up there that did this? Gimme a break!

So much for Karma

But that... is another story~

ButterflyDreams

Hello, I'm going to jump in here, if you don't mind.

I've had a really bad day and am in the middle of heavy self medication. I'll try to make it legible.

My mother is Bi-Polar, I have helped her go from 18 pills three times a day, to 6-7 three times a day. She also has a full Hysterectomy and thyroid problems, so she's actually only taking 2 pills for her mental stability. THe others are for arthritis, muscle spasms, and hormones.

At one point I was stressed out and with my family history was immediatly placed on Lithium. I took it for six months and figured out where the stress was. I no longer needed it.

A lady I once loved intensly was also on anti depressene medication while we were together. She claimed for a while to be allergic to cannabis. While I felt this highly unlikely, I smiled and kept the budz to myself.

Her main complaint with smoking was that 10 minutes later she'd be ill. Physically ill. I knew from previous experience with "troubled" ladies that this was a reaction to an association, not to the substance.

One night She and I sat on the bed and had a glass of wine. Or a bottle actually. As I smoked the first joint I made sure she got a good contact buzz. It's not hard to do if you pay attention to air currents.

As I lit the second I smiled and handed it to her. She hit it tentivly the first time. I waited 5 minutes, only keeping it going, she hit it again when I offered.

After half an hour I asked her when we started smoking. She looked and jumped to realize so much time had passed. She stated to get up, then realized she wasn't ill.

She gave me the funniest look for a moment then proceeded to roll most of my stash and talk about everything while we drank more wine and watched the sun come up.

::: Whew:::

I guess the moral is, it's probably not the pot that causing the reaction. There is more likely an underlying cause that you have not identified. Most of those with depression or bi-polar that I know are helped by MJ.

Smiles,
BD

 

Mamabudz

And now my turn


I am bipolar hypomanic rapid cycling...that means I am bi-polar, I reacha state often that is just below a full blown manic episode often in the course of a week (many times often in the course of a day) and am on medication.

Marijuana did not cause the illness. Genetics did, also my personal history of stressors and my family history (early nurturing environment).

Since I have been on anti depressants on and off since '88, and have been smoking since then lightly til 97 and heavily snce then I can tell you that MJ does effect moods. Sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. It enhances and intereacts witht he brain chemistry extant in the system. Depending on ewhat is already there, different reactions will occur -- depression, euphoria, catatonia, sadness..suicidal thoughts.

Marijuana should not be used alone if you are depressed but neither should you throw it away if you are taking drugs for depression, it is an herbal adjunct to my way of thinkiong.

Prior to my diagnosis -- which was made only in the past year (Jan 2001) my disability made me unable to hold one job or career for any length of time -- three months usually -- I would learn vast amounts of information and become bored anbd disruptive. I'm not a good drone I guess. On my own, my need for a non-ususal working schedule made private business untenable.

But it is also the bipolar mania that allowed me to receive my advanced degrees and graduate from some of the top schools in the country.

I must share with you that since treatment with anti seizure medication has minimized the extremity of my manic phase, bringing me a "volume control" to my mind -- allowing me some peace in this *unquiet mind* and some relaxation from the feeling of eternal rat racing I have been able to harness my disorder into a usuable form.

And that has made al lthe difference. My disability is now an ability. My creativity is more than it has ever been, my writing has taken off. My political work, my work with children, and my participation here too are all examples of how by treating Myself first and best allows me to bring my gifts and my ability to help others.

And I think I've accomplished that quite well ~ a cookie for me

Yes taking a pill every day for the rest of your life is ****ty...but you are smoking every day, what's the difference? Women take b.c pills...folks take vitamins...where is the difference? Its all in how you view it. A Collar and leash...or an aid to make you better, stronger, and more in control of your gifts.

And they are gifts. Read "Touched By Fire...you are in some amzing company if you are a bi-polar. And you have been born in a time in history when you can take a tiny pill and be able to harness the beast within, control it...and master it.

Your first lesson is to learn patience ...it is the hardest one to learn. Then relax and watch how your life can and will unfold. To be bi-polar, you are by definition very very bright. I think you will find you have a the makings of an infinitely wonderful future ahead of you.

Congratualtions and welcome to the family

Budd8089

*looks around*
Where is everyone else?
Mamabudz takin' care of business again...

Most people just smoke weed and enjoy, they don't really have problems like this...so that's why I feel a bit weird dissecting it, but alas, that's the way it is.

Butterfly, I guess that's a case against me. I agree it depends on your mindset when you go into smoking. Most people probably think it's BS, but I suppose it also depends on how much you're smoking and what the quality is. Thinking bad, it'll be bad. But how do you account for all of those that are feeling bad, light up, and start to feel good again? Doesn't add up.

And mama...I'm not being sassy, so excuse me if it sounds like it, but I certainly didn't believe it CAUSED Bipolar (if that's what you meant). More like it hastened it the process...could just be bad timing. I'm open minded.

I don't really like to use the word "moodswings", but that's what they are. My moodswings have shifted from here to there for quite a while now, but it's been more of a weekly thing. The past month or so (somewhere in there? losing track of time...) it has turned into a DAILY thing. Pretty damn stressful. I can practically look at my watch and time the next mood, which usually isn't a nice one. And then I'm back up again waiting for the happiness to end. It's a trip...which is hopefully ending now.

And you're right, the MJ had always shifted my moods around. Just not so drastically when I was "focusing", and it hadn't done it before when I was sober, so like I said...I looked to the plant.

As for medication, I'm on anti-seizure too. I guess it just slows things down? Interesting, anywya. Neurontin and a small dose of Effexor now. And while I can feel better about some things, the world is still a sh**ty place, all the same.

YOU definitely have a BRIGHT OUTLOOK on things, which is kinda remarkable, considering. I'm not sure most people realize how things are when you're depressed and then not-so-depressed so quickly. Can't really compare it to much out there. It's definitely a hurdle.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the positive outlook...was definitely needed.

Mamabudz

It has not always been easy, but you have the gift and you can learn to see the world in its proper perspective.

Hang in there.

You may be both bi-polar & clinically depressed as I am. Because of that I am also on Paxil for depression and Buspar for anxiety. I also have a prescription for Valium for intense panic attacks. I also have Papa and many good friends

I hope your diagnosos came from a psychiatrist who can also evaluate you for any co-existing depression and treat accordingly.

I'll be waiting on your next post

ButterflyDreams

This is where the differences in each human become very evident for the observant one. Some people can smoke while upset or angry and it melts the negatives away. Other's (myself included) find it impossible to feel high while upset or angry. I can smoke all night if I start off pissed. Then it'll hit me all at once and I'll fade into oblivion for a while.

Mama is correct, you have to consider this as a gift. With the medication you will be able to understand and control the things your mind is capable of much better. I personally would never want to be "normal", their lives must be really boring.

Let us know how it's going.

Smiles,
BD

dedbr

I don't know whether to cry or jump for joy!Ifg I didn't feel so good I probably wouldn't be able to talk.These posts speak to my heart very strongly.I feel the frustration sometimes so acutely that it feels like there is no answer to the cycles I live thru.
I am bi-polar.I feel sometimes that I have been the test dummy for the drug company's.At one time I swore off the weed to see if that was the problem.It wasn't.I know that I have taken the meds and smoked and had the worse panic attacks on my records.I have also had the most manic episode at the same time.
I want to think some more on this before I respond again.At times I have found the medication to be the primary cause of the panic attacks.The interesting thing to note in my case is that I never had a panic attack like these until I started taking the medication.The doctor I was seeing at the time told me that wasn't possible.Doctors really don't seem to know that much.

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