Marijuana.com

mrpotty

Hi.

Before I get to my main point, let me just re-introduce myself, since I haven't looked at these boards in a looong time. My name's Will, I'm 23, been smoking on and off for 6 or 7 years now (had periods of almost daily use for a couple years, followed by basically no use for a couple years).

Anyway, the topic I want to discuss: I've had problems with anxiety and feelings of depersonalization for years. Last September, after a particularly rough summer, I found myself in the ER after an episode of extreme depersonalization which led to a full-blown panic attack (no cannabis was involved, and it was far far worse than any panic from pot). One of the reasons I actually stopped smoking for a long time was that it would often exacerbate this problem. In fact, I've had dissociated, depersonalized feelings since I was a young kid, but I never had a full-on, heart pounding, I think I'm gonna lose control of myself or maybe die panic attack until I started smoking.

I think the best description of the feelings I would get is this (taken from the DSM IV):

" a feeling of detachment or estrangement from one's self . The individual may feel like an automaton or as if he or she is living in a dream or a movie. There may be a sensation of being an outside observer of one's metal processes, one's body, or parts of one's body."

More info about this can be found at: http://www.depersonalization.info/overview.html

Here are a couple of excerpts:

"One key phrase in the disorder's DSM-IV definition is: reality testing remains intact, Janiger adds. While a degree of depersonalization may be present in other illnesses, like schizophrenia, this is not a psychotic condition. The person knows that something is terribly wrong, and grapples with trying to figure out what it is. If anything, it's the opposite of insanity. It's like being too sane. You become hypervigilant of your existence and things around you.

Indeed, chronic depersonalization often includes a sensation of overconsciousness wherein each thought seems too apparent, or too loud, like the volume of a low-playing radio suddenly turned up to its maximum according to one sufferer.

Signs of depersonalization can occur with many illnesses, however isn't clear why the condition persists in some people. Chronically depersonalized persons (or D-People as they're often called) are usually highly intelligent, and prone to intellectual ruminating. Onset is most often seen at an early age, from around puberty to the late twenties. There has been evidence of links in some cases to early childhood trauma, Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, stress resulting from life threatening situations, and Migraine. Evidence has also suggested that it afflicts females to a greater degree than males."

"This one young person's account is typical of the feelings of unreality laced with intermittent panic that often besets sufferers in the earliest stages whether drug-induced or not:

... three times after I've smoked pot I've had a disabling depersonalization from it. Again, it's the same numbness, then far away, unable to control my body, time feels like it's flashing like movie stills, cannot tell what is happening, even what I am thinking, sound is far away, cannot speak. Think it is near death as one could get. Also one time it happened to me after half a beer (didn't feel at all intoxicated) and the ambulance came and got me. Some lady was sitting over me saying something about Jesus, which only made the fear stronger.

The terror is inexplicable. In between attacks I experience feelings of unreality, sometimes lasting days. I deal with agoraphobia and panic, dread of dying. Sometimes just feel it is hard to move around. Like I will become disoriented and fall over (which really happens during my serious attacks). I avoid people, since they make me feel strange, especially if they are too close. Being in a store can make me feel strange too. "

I notice that site makes several references to cannabis inducing depersonalization. What is everyone's thoughts on this? The site didn't seem to have some sort of blatant anti-pot bias, I know pot is way too often vilified, so try to be objective in your opinions if possible

Anyway, I have sought help after my ER episode. 2 incompetent docs tried to put me on SSRI's (one zoloft, another paxil, didn't warn me at all about side effects) and they didn't even refer me to a therapist when I asked.

Finally I found a doctor who put me on Klonopin (.5 mg 2x a day) and referred me to a Rational-Emotive Therapist that I saw a few times.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationa...havior_therapy).

The Klonopin has been a great help, I even enjoy smoking once in awhile because I'm freed of some of the bad feelings I used to have. However, being on this drug has caused it's own set of problems. At this point (been on it since September) I don't feel "normal" without it, and I am basically dreading quitting. I'm afraid of all my old problems resurfacing.

Sorry if I'm rambling. Just wanted to share my experiences with you, and see if others have gotten these same feelings. It would happen to me all the time, seemingly out of nowhere.

btw: I did read the panic attack sticky, has some very good info & advice.

 

Buzzby

Consider that you might have a chronic illness and that Klonopin is the treatment that keeps it at bay. If you were diabetic, would you be concerned that you need insulin to feel "normal"?


That's a valid concern. Klonopin won't cure the problem - it only suppresses it. Continuing therapy might cure it or, at least, get it under some degree of conscious control.

__________________

JussBL4ZE

man, whats so bad about death. it cures the stress of everyday life.

cb123

I've read your story and found it to be similar to mine. There are only minor differences (no ER, I'm 17).

We basically both created trauma, and trauma causes anxiety, and axiety caused dp/dr. What you may have, and I deffinately have, is ocd. I cannot get over this, and always check to see if I'm normal. Even being here, on this forum, is a symptom of ocd. I was a 4.2 (gpa) pot smoker for 2 years when suddenly, after smoking in my hot tub, I felt out of it. I was scared shitless and worried over the internet for the next 10 days. I've analyzed all of it, and the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to stay away from meds, they only make you feel more unlike yourself. Also exercise and clear your mind. I'm in a debate with myself as to if I should smoke again. I see is kind of like some girl getting rapped: they always say they never feel the same again, until they face their fears. We created this traumatized feeling. Also DP Disorder is a dissasociative disorder, and cannot be present with any other disorder (panic attack, ocd). Also DP disorder cannot be triggered by the use of marijuana. Ask your psyc about this, he will verify it. If I was you, I would ease off klonopin.

- Does continuing to smoke help you feel normal?

Thanks,
CB

dasmusik

unless there's a good reasons to quit the medication i see no reason to
(these reasons being negative side effects, long term health risks, lack of money to pay for prescription etc.)

as Buzzby mentioned it will keep the panic and anxiety at bay, and if with the pills you lead a happy and healthy fufilling life then why not. I personally don't like the way those kinds of medications make me feel, but that's just me. i know countless people who are very happy with their drugs.

don't be put off my and holistic crap. if there are gonna be long term health risks, or short term for that matter. your doctor will discuss them with you.
anyway i'm rambling.

 

Bong_Slacker

I get feelings of depersonalization, but I don't think my problems are from herbs or a medical condition. They seem to hit me most when I am in deep thought about the problems of society. There is a media induced depersonalization going on. "FEAR FEAR FEAR, protect yourself, get a alarm system, buy heath insurance, TERRORISTS ARE ON YOUR BACK DOORSTEP!" They try to make you think that the world is a horrible place, and the only answer is buying their products and living in fear. Well, thats a load of bull and the reason I no longer watch TV. I think if I sat around and watched TV all the time, I'd eventually get brainwashed into never trusting anyone and would never leave the house. How many people know their neighbors? How many people would help someone stranded on the side of road? Not many, because they think about it too much. Example:

(A man gets a flat tire on the side of the road. When he pops the trunk, he realizes that he has a spare tire, but no tire jack to put the tire on with. The man looks around and sees a farm house in the distance. He thinks to himself "I wonder if they would have a tire jack they can loan me." He starts to walk toward the house. As he gets closer he thinks: "I wonder if they even have a tire jack?" As he starts to walk down their driveway and starts to panic. "What if they won't let me barrow it?", "What if they say no?". Then as he gets to the front door, he knocks. When a nice old lady answer the door, the gentleman then says: "I don't need your damn tire jack anyway!" and walks off.)

I know this doesn't help if you have a authentic medical condition, but a lot of feelings related to depersonalization have their roots in problems like this.

__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are..."

Angie70

I have had panic disorder since my teens (now in my 30s). Never smoked til my 20s -- and I did find that smoking relieved the anxiety/panic attacks.
I also would get the depersonalization, dissacciation when I had attacks -- particularly the bad ones. The best way I could describe it was feeling like I was sitting on a chair that was balanced on one chair leg on the top of a pin head a thousand feet in the air (seriously). Sometimes would even get a bit paralyzed and would have to force my legs to move.
My doctor prescribed Klonopin -- and it works like a charm. (I've stopped smoking so that didn't affect anything). I also was on Pamelor (very old anti-depressant) which helped with the anxiety.
Keep taking the Klonopin since it is helping you. Some say it isn't addictive and others say it is. I only take it now if I'm going out to do something that might induce an attack (I'm agoraphobic and have a fear of bridges).
Also, one of the best things to do is the "flooding" technique. Take your Klonopin and do a certain panic inducing activity over and over. This helps you get less anxious about the activity/ situation. I did that with escalators (used to never be able to ride one -- now can do it without meds). It's behavior modification-type therapy and doesn't work for everything, but does help in some situations. Good luck.

Angie70

I have had panic disorder since my teens (now in my 30s). Never smoked til my 20s -- and I did find that smoking relieved the anxiety/panic attacks.
I also would get the depersonalization, dissasociation when I had attacks -- particularly the bad ones. The best way I could describe it was feeling like I was sitting on a chair that was balanced on one chair leg on the top of a pin head a thousand feet in the air (seriously). Sometimes would even get a bit paralyzed and would have to force my legs to move.
My doctor prescribed Klonopin -- and it works like a charm. (I've stopped smoking so that didn't affect anything). I also was on Pamelor (very old anti-depressant) which helped with the anxiety.
Keep taking the Klonopin since it is helping you. Some say it isn't addictive and others say it is. I only take it now if I'm going out to do something that might induce an attack (I'm agoraphobic and have a fear of bridges).
Also, one of the best things to do is the "flooding" technique. Take your Klonopin and do a certain panic inducing activity over and over. This helps you get less anxious about the activity/ situation. I did that with escalators (used to never be able to ride one -- now can do it without meds). It's behavior modification-type therapy and doesn't work for everything, but does help in some situations. Good luck.