Marijuana.com

dedbr

I can go to the store and buy as much beer or booze as I want.Why can't I go and buy,or grow as much herb as I want?I know a guy right now who has ten cartons of smokes in his freezer because he's afraid that cigarrettes are going to go illegal.
I don't think that the government has the right to control my consumption of anything,period.I think that they should keep there laws out of my consumption of the herb,like they do with tobacco or any other drug.I think that the religious minority in this country has taken over my legal system and they are trying to put their standards on my usage.If they had their way we wouldn't be using at all.
I don't give them the right to control me or my lifestyle.They can pass all the laws they want to,but its not going to stop me from doing what I'm doing now.I refuse to let the government tell me how much of anything I can have.I wish I was sitting in on these meetings that they are having about the possesion limits.It shouldn't make any difference how much I have as long as I'm not hurting anyone else.Period,end of discussion.

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Greenman

We are getting side tracked. This is not about recreational use, but medicinal use. And we must remember the current political climate. A recreational user still cannot have a seed in his possession even if he lives in a pro med marijuana state.

The question was, should their be a limit on the quantity available for medical use to patients. Personally I think there should be a limit, simply because we need to make these concessions to get the medicine in the hands of those people who are dying without it. Alot of the people who can benifit from marijuana today will be dead in 5 years when we finally get it to where they can have any amount. Any relief right now is a good thing.

Lets get the medicine to them, and complain about the restrictions afterwards. But the fact still remains that as long as marijuana is schedueled the way it is federally, there are going to be limits on quantity you can possess. People don't walk out of pharmacies with all the valium they want, but with a specific perscribed amount. This is how society handles perscription drugs, and we would be foolish to waste our energy trying to fight the social norm.

Peace.

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pipe

"we would be foolish to waste our energy trying to fight the social norm."

Hrm, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what we're essentially doing by trying to legalize marijuana? Go into a typical, suburban household and ask the adults there what they think of medical marijuana (or marijuana at all for that matter) and see the kind of responses you get. I think trying to legalize marijuana, at ANY level, is very much a 'fight against the social norm', much more so then trying to make a particular drug (in this case, marijuana) have different rules in terms of prescriptions.

dedbr

I'm sorry old man,I don't agree with you.There should not be any limit on the amount that you can posses,even with a prescription.I personally don't agree with medical marijuana at all,and I use it medically.
Even though medical marijuana was a great step foward,it perhaps was a step in the wrong direction.I realize of course that this is not a statement that goes with the flow.IMO med. herb is the wrong way to go about it.The goal is the complete legalization,not to only a few sick people who really need the releif it gives physically.I don't think we win anything if a few sick people are the only ones who can legally get their"medicine".Come on,Greenman,what about all the brothers and sisters who would like to try the herb,but won't because it's illegal?It's wrong to deny them the chance to change their lives just because it's illegal.
No,I don't think that we should not give marijuana out to the sick or ill or anyone who benefits from it.But I don't think we should deny anyone the right to do anything as long as they do not hurt anyone else physically.That is the problem.The only reason someone could say I'm hurting them is mentally,or they don't agree with my opinion and want me to live like they do.
Sorry,I am passionate on this subject.I do not give the government the right to regulate anything in my life,and get upset when people are so willing to give them up when they don't have to.
I don't remember anywhere in the original law that said anything about possesion limits.Why come out with it now after all these years?Because its a way for the anti's to win one on us,and if we give them the chance,they surely will.

Harleyman

I agree with dedbr. I think that it should be legalized for everyone and the government should keep their nose out of my business. I am not a child or incompetent.

Why do we need to take a person to court to prove they are incompetent and can't take care of themselves, but uncle Sam can do it whenever? He only needs to say this is for your own good and bam it's a law. You need to wear seatbelts, bam, you need to wear helmets, bam, you can't smoke in public anymore, bam, bam BAM, BAM, BAM. It's bull$hit, they are full of bull$hit and it needs to end now.

They keep chipping away at our freedoms and I believe you need to go in with the big guns and offer a bill to legalize it for all adults. Meaning if you're old enough to drink alcohol then you're old enough to smoke bud. Form a rally. Hell I'll be there. Let's smoke out the White house. What are they going to do? Arrest a million people? We stay there getting stoned, blocking traffic until they do something. Give us some kind of concession.

The question was though when is enough enough? I think it should already be readily available to patients that need it and they should have as much or little as they need.

Just asking for it to be a prescribed medication isn't enough though, this is where the big guns come in, you go in with all you got and ask, no demand for it to be legal in all states for adults and perhaps you'll get it as a medication. Then you start chipping away at the law to make it legal for all.

You may think it silly of me to compare this to the helmet laws, but bear with me for a minute. If I remember right there were no helmet laws in the beginning of motorcycling, but after enough people got killed by careless cagers they made us start wearing helmets as if it would really save us and it took years and years of lobbying and debating to get some of the helmet laws repealed. Some of the new laws were written by bikers, stating that inexperienced riders should wear protection and that the state should offer riding schools for both new and old riders. In some states they had to throw in insurance clauses, safety equipment and jump through a couple hoops, but hey they got what they wanted in the end, they can ride lidless. The war is still being waged though and won't end until all who ride decide.

To put this to use with marijuana you do the same. I'm sure some of it is being done or has been done, but you go in insisting they legalize it, you have rallies, you inform people and eventually maybe you will get the medical use of marijuana. When that happens you go back and start chipping away at it and write bills to legalize it by asking it be legal for all over say 18 or 21. Then you put in that bill that anyone caught violating it has a severe fine or they loose their liscence for 6 months to a year. I also think it should be the same for alcohol and tobacco.

Like I said this has probably been done and I may be beating a dead horse, but I'm new to this site and I'm learning. I truely feel that we should be able to do what we want with our own person and our property as long as we do no harm to others.

If you don't want to see me smoke then go over there, if you don't want to hear what's on the radio then change the station, if you don't want to watch sex and violence on TV turn it off, but don't tell me that I can't do or that it's wrong just because you don't agree with me.

Man made booze, God made weed, Who do you trust?

 

dedbr

I don't know how we can talk about our rights being eroded and wanting to do something about it,yet when it comes to this issue,so many are willing to just give up the right to posses as much as we want.The California law says nothing about limits.The people voted on this just the way it is,theres no reason to change it.
One point I need to make in response to Greenmans post,the amount of Valium I can get by prescription has no place in this discussion.Herb is not a man made drug that can kill like valium.How many hundreds of herbs are available now that can be considered psycotropic but no government regulations are attached to there use?
A judge recently ruled against a company that advertises in High Times selling legal highs.Well guess what,they're not legal anymore.This is a perfect example of the government telling us what we can use.What difference does it make?It apparently makes a difference to someone,because in my experience you can't really even get a buzz from this stuff.How soon will it be before they start making other herbs illegal?
I don't think it's wise to backup from anything.The possesion limits shouldn't even of been mentioned.The fact that it was shows a gap in our forces that we need to shore up.
Get the government out of my life.I don't need anyone to "protect" me from the herb.I need someone to protect me from the government.I want a government that serves the people,not a people that serve the government.
Peace

Harleyman

Well said.

My biggest point is though we need to act. Stop talking about and do something like the bikers. Form a rally at the doors of the White house. Demand they return our freedoms and stop enslaving us or herding us like mindless cattle.

I can understand passing a law to make a drug illegal if it causes harm or death, but not just because it gets you high. Give me a break. Cigarettes will make you high (plus kill you), alcohol will make you high (plus cause organ and heart failure) and so will some over-the-counter drugs. Maybe not in the same way or feel the same way or be as intense, but I guess enough of it will come close.

The way I look at it if they legalize it it will be better for all. It can be used to help with illneses like Aids, cancer, gloucoma and the list goes on. It can be used recreationally like alcohol or cigarettes. Also if they legalized it the national debt would start to be repayed by the revenue it would provide, if they stop overspending.

The way they look at it is if they legalize it they'll have to admit they had reports faulsified, lied to us and a lot of government officials and public servants would be out of a job.

The indians and other nationalities smoke it now and they smoked it before we got here to the USA and slaughtered them and stole their land and imposed a "civilized law" over them. Just because they want to do something a certain way or they think this or that is wrong they want me to do it too. I thought this was supposed to be the land of the free and brave, not the land of the enslaved and complacent.

Greenman

ooooh, got some hackles up on this one I see.

Most of you are talking about the way it should be, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. But we are not looking at reality here.

Let me take on a couple of the contentions one by one and explain my reasoning behind it.

Hate to say it, that is incorrect. The social norm, what society believes, not the political norm. Over 75% of americans believe that medical marijuana should be available. This is a social norm. What we are fighting against is the Political norm, which can be shown historically to be drastically out of step with the social norms on many issues, not just prohibition.

They will still be alive when it is legalized, many of these people who use medical marijuana now will not. That is a pretty large difference. So what if we don't go 90 yards to the score with medical marijuana? This is about saving peoples lives bro.

Think outside the box for a second. what is going to happen when all these sick people start getting marijuana from their doctors. What happens when we start getting thousands of Steve Kubbys out there, who has survived a terminal cancer for almost 12 years when it normally kills in 5 after diagonisis? When the only medicine used to treat it is marijuana. What happens when we start curing inoperable brain tumors with thc injections? What is going to happen to the governments position as all these medically supervised cases start being compiled?

Maybe it will take us longer going this route to get to outright legalization. But if that is the price to make a dying man or woman's last days on the planet better, or to buy them a couple more. Well so be it. And I am sure Peter McWilliams, as well as anyone here who lost a loved one from cancer or AIDS would agree with me.

Neither is pennicillin, or steroids, or cocaine, all of which are prescribed. And considering that we are talking about a controlled substance, as currently seen under the law, I think the valium and marijuana are very much related. Reguardless of how many other drugs that are psycotropic out there that have no regulations on them, the point is marijuana does, and the reality of the situation is that is not likely to change any time soon. So setting up limits on the amount a person can legally have in their possession, provided the limits are reasonable, is valid. Just because Prop. 215 does not specify the limitations there are still other legal precedents that do set the limitations. Such as the supply given to the 8 patients in the Compassionate Use Act's program, to name one.

The more the government stonewalls medical marijuana, the more the public will turn against them. Virtually everyone has been touched by cancer or AIDS in their lives. Either a friend, or a relative. The more the government cracks down, the more people will start asking questions. And once they start finding out the answers to those questions, THEN the upswell will happen towards legalization. It is very important that we are humane to the sick, and compassionate. Because that is what makes us different from them.

Never back up from anything? Gee, thats what the government is doing now, and look how many lives it has destroyed because of it. I hope you are never totally in the wrong when you choose to be so blindly stubborn in your cause.

Peace

dedbr

What about Steve Kubby?You say he has lived 12 years after being diagnosed with cancer.Where did he get his medicine before?He wouldn't have to go through this if it was legal.My way gives everyone the right to use if they feel it's necessary to alleviate the symptoms of their disease.No one can dictate to anyone how much or when if it's legal.I thought this was about the war on herb.Guess I was wrong.
Prop. 215?Why,when a law is written do we have to change it to fit our ideals?I personally feel that it is a good law just the way it is.If you are selling then you need to be arrested and go to jail.If you are a caregiver and are supplying 20 people,then you need a lot of weed.Sick people can't grow their own.I am bedridden and can't supply myself.I live in Ohio and we have no med. herb law.We did,but California knocked us out of it.
If not for illegal activity I would not have my medicine.Should I sit around and wait for my state to pass a law so I can have my medicine?
Am I blindly stubborn?Perhaps.But knowing I can only participate with my words in this fight,I want to put up the best fight that I can.if we keep winning small victories and then give them something back,it's going to be a long haul.It's been too long already for me.

Greenman

dedbr, you make my point for me. Outright legalization is going to take some serious time still, and I don't think that the sick and dying need to suffer the entire wait. Because there are a good many of them that will not be able to. We need to make exceptions for people who have a legitamite medical need for it. And this should take precedence over our want to "just get high".

I think, in order to get the laws in place as quickly as possible to get the sick and dying their medicine, concessions need to be made. Marijuana is a controlled substance. And there is no controlled substance that you have limitless access to. Every perscription contains a quantity of the medicine, and any refills. But they don't give you all the drugs up front.

Until marijuana is rescheduled federally, which is not something that will happen any time soon (the petition by Jon Gettman to reschedule pot to scheduel 2 was denied by the DEA shortly before the Supreme Court ruled on the CBC issue), we must treat it as a controlled substance. Otherwise we are arguing not only that doctors should be allowed to break federal law and recommend or perscribe marijuana (and have those recomendations upheld in court), but that the patients should also have an unlimited supply of what society still sees as a controlled substance.

There is a wide discrepency on what an acceptable amount to possess, through government programs and various court rulings. This is not a one size fits all solution to the problem. A glaucoma patient will not need as much pot as someone going through heavy chemotheropy. I believe that, under the present laws, a patient should be allowed to possess a reasonable amount to keep them in supply for 6 months. 4 tons is unreasonable. If there is no legally recognized limit between what is used for normal medical purposes and what could be construed as intent to sell, we are asking for problems with the law.

While its true that outright legalization will, by default, solve the medical marijuana issue. It will take much longer than what it would to push medical marijuana seperatly. You know what to think about polls but ... The public support is much stronger for medical marijuana than for outright leglaization. And medical marijuana will cause the end of prohibition in and of itself, given a decade. A strategic win for the legalization zealots. Once we win medical marijuana, then it is only a matter of time before the gutter science is hopelessly debunked, and there will be nothing left but the bone truth.

Oooh I liiiiike it.

Peace