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JoeCamo · 10-23-2007, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alsenmo

You're just the proof of concept. Cannabis can induce a panic disorder. And have you even looked at the studies, to see who funded them? And have you looked at the actual evidence? Government conspiracy theories wont disprove serious studies, that present causal evidence that cannabinoids change the way the amygdala handles panic.

You're a perfect example of the negative effects of cannabis, yet you say that we should basically discount all studies that say anything bad about cannabis. You're a joke.

Degrading me by saying that I'm a joke because I smoked pot and it caused a panic disorder proving you right? Wrong, the past 3 generations of my family have had panic attacks, my mom started having them from alcohol, she never touched pot. I'm saying it was destined to happen from my families health history. Yes the amygdala does control panic in the brain, but I have gotten over my panic sympoms when I am sober, thus I don't have a panic disorder anymore. The only reason I have a panic attack when I smoke pot now is because what happened the first time, so I freak out when I feel the high, but if I could get over the panic in full if I really worked at it.

Just because I believe in government conspiracies doesn't make me some burnout that doesn't have an idea about anything. I just don't read any studies about health without asking questions because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT, the tests have some kind of bias and I am sure of it. There aren't enough people that are willing to let doctors do random tests on them.

EDIT: I just read that you have been having panic attacks and I did not see that so I changed my post a little bit. I think if you were destined to have panic attacks you will have them with or without the pot.

dench · 10-23-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGemini

Are you getting these panic attacks just when smoking? Is it after smoking a lot or does it matter? It sounds a lot closer to random onset panic disorder, but pot may be a trigger since it does increase heart rate.

Best thing to do: see a clinical psychologist.

i really dont think he needs to see a pyschologist

Stonedmason · 10-23-2007, 05:49 AM

JEsus its completely curable, I'm living proof.

Jesus I feel good

ITG · 10-23-2007, 06:23 AM

I just looked at all three of the links to studies. Two (1st and 3rd) of them only gave me the abstract, and in neither abstract did they say anything that could be construed as "marijuana can induce panic attacks." The FIRST abstract is obviously fairly meaningless, since it uses synthetic cannabinoids, which are neither the cannabinoids found in THC nor the cannabinoids found naturally in your body. The third link said absolutely nothing about panic attacks at all.

The second one did. But, if you read assiduously, then you would have noticed how they used "may cause." They are not saying that it does. They're not even really saying that it can. They're saying that it's POSSIBLE that it can. They have no evidence that the cannabinoids are ever directly causing panic attacks. If there was a clear, direct correlation, then it would have been listed in the results section, not the discussion.

(I'd also like to point out that the abstract of the third link directly contradicts the second link's hypothesis that mj can automatically open reward paths in the brain).

And we now come to the really important part- even IF cannabis was proven to sometimes induce a panic attack, then that doesn't change the overarching fact that it is STILL A PANIC ATTACK. Panic attacks are ALL in your head, no matter WHAT triggered them. The body changes in a psychosomatic manner to match the panic attack, not the other way around. All panic attacks can be mentally conquered, and your body can always be returned to normality from one (I use "can" in the theoretical sense; it is entirely possible that circumstances, most notably a person's psychological state at the time, can stop a person from bringing themselves out of a panic attack).

Besides, like I said, none of those studies studied cannabis, but synthetic cannabinoids. Conclusions drawn from synthetic cannabinoids must be applied either universally or only to those cannabinoids, logically (that is not to say that it is necessary logical to apply conclusions universally, only that you cannot apply the conclusions to some untested versions and not to others). Your body produces cannabinoids while exercising. Are you also prepared to say that exercising induces panic attacks?

So. In summary. The first link is meaningless to this debate because the abstract is the only part visible unless you pay, and the abstract makes no mention of panic attacks and specifically states that they are using synthetic cannabinoids. The third is meaningless because, again, the only part we can see is the abstract, and it also makes no mention of panic attacks. The second is a full lab report, but it also used synthetic cannabinoids, and did not in fact conclude that "cannabis triggers panic attacks." Or anything similar to that. Finally, it's moot anyway, because no matter what triggers a panic attack, the solution is always the same- fully believe that it is in your head, that it will go away if you tell it to, and then tell it to. The unfortunate part is that it's very hard for people experiencing a panic attack to fully embrace the idea that their body is actually perfectly healthy, the brain just thinks it isn't so it tells the body to give it the signals that it's unhealthy. That is what is happening. But sometimes it's not easy to believe, and if you don't believe it, then you're going to have a much harder time calming yourself down.

Stonedmason · 10-23-2007, 08:24 AM

I have two very important links for people. People from a mental health program I stayed at found them for me and printed them off while I was staying at their safe beds program. They've helped me a shitload....hahaha, to smoke all the weed I want, lol, not exactly their goal I'm sure... Jesus I'm high.

ah yes the links...
Panic-Attack-Pages
coping

**dedbr** · 10-23-2007, 07:04 PM

I would advise extreme caution in using any advice from us, also. What works for some may not work for others. It is always best to consult a doctor.....

Panic attacks are not a laughing matter, and my ability to control my personal self doesn't mean that evey one could do it. I ain't no doctor, that's for sure.....cause I is....

Some Where In Ded Land.........

A really cool spot......

Zilve · 10-24-2007, 04:25 PM

I've had a lotta paranoid as fuck sessions and one straight up flip out panic attack. There was one time I smoked 6 bowls in about 30 minutes thinking the stuff was crap (since the guy i got it from was outta town) sure enough this was the one time that this little kid"dude u'll get soo highhhh" guy was right.

I think it really has everything to do with set and setting. (as most will tell u) Since i was by myself I was literally lost in my own world for a while. The minute my roommates came home i was just fine again. I also used to smoke in a buddy's attic for hours a day. I mean class gets out at 11:30 so sometimes id be there from then until 8 or 9pm (even later on fridays if we werent going to the bar or something) and we would just order a food, watch tv, playstation smoke and have friends over. If I smoked during the day I would be fine, go see the girlfriend or go for a run or head to the park or just chill with friends, even get homework done. But if I would smoke at night I would start bugging about how i was going to get to my dorm without getting caught being stoned as fuck (since 5+ hours of bong rips will do that). Now I moved into my own apartment and I dont think i've flipped over the issue once. There was another time all my friends got into a fight at the party and i was just too stoned to deal. Paranoia trip lasted hours that time

Its always been a very social thing for me. If my friends didn't really smoke much id definitely smoke a shit ton less. One of my friends who I found out smoked started smoking with me on a constant basis. Hes one of those people who just never lets things bother him, always chilled out and likes to consider stuff with a cool head. I've also for some reason never been paranoid when smoking with him

I think a good half of peoples paranoia and panic attacks wouldnt happen if marijuana was legalized and people werent so judgemental about how high you are

Moe Szyslak · 10-24-2007, 10:56 PM

I get panic attacks occasionally when I'm really high. It seems to happen more with better bud. Mine will only happen when I'm awaken from sleep & I can't see anything because the room is dark. I'm not afraid of the dark, but if I wake up & can't see anything in the room, my first instincts are to go outside & try to find light. I don't even think about hitting the light switch, I just lose my freakin' mind!
The last one I had happened when power went out one night. I was high as hell & had just fallen asleep. The fan stopped running when the power went out, so that woke me up. I couldn't see anything, so I instantly ran into the bathroom to look out the front window. I had to seriously stop myself from going to my car, in my underwear, to drive to see how far out the power outage was. I finally talked myself out of it & lit a candle. I was feeling better in about 10 minutes.

I wish I had some more advice on how to deal with them, but there seems to be some good advice in this thread.

phaedrus28 · 11-02-2007, 11:37 AM

I'd been a regular smoker of pot for several years, and never experienced anything other than complete and utter bliss. Then one day I smoked my usual amount, at home, by myself in comfortable setting, and had one of the worst experiences of my life. I guess you could describe it as a panic attack - the sensations wracking my body and mind were so intensely uncomfortable that I genuinely believed I had overdone it and was going to die. I got an ambulance to take me to the ER, where I waited in a horrible little white room to have an ECG, only to be pronounced 'fine' by a rather bored looking doctor. Then I sat in a corner of the waiting room, waiting for my partner to come and rescue me from neon hell. It took me 2 days to fully recover.

Had several more after that, in an attempt to establish whether it was a once-off or not. Not as intense, because at least I knew what was happening to me, but still horrific. During this time and the following months I discovered a little secret to help me cope, both physically and psychologically - have a really hot shower, and stay in it as long as you need until you start to feel better. Don't worry about saving water or power! It really works, and because I know I have the hot shower as a safety blanket, I've been able to very, very slowly wean myself back onto the blessed herb, to the point where I no longer have heart palpitations every time I even get a whiff of the stuff.

I'd like to think that I've come out the other side of a rather long tunnel (it's taken me over a year to reach this point) so Luke, use the shower. It suffocates all the panic inside you, as if you were being massaged in your mother's womb again.

Yes, pot can cause massive panic attacks that last for hours and hours, and I still don't understand why it happened to me when it did, but I guess there was a reason, and I've had to accept that I'll never really know what that reason is.

But at least I can smoke again now. I really understand how awful these attacks can be.

Alsenmo · 11-20-2007, 04:43 PM

(old thread but w/e)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITG

And we now come to the really important part- even IF cannabis was proven to sometimes induce a panic attack, then that doesn't change the overarching fact that it is STILL A PANIC ATTACK. Panic attacks are ALL in your head, no matter WHAT triggered them. The body changes in a psychosomatic manner to match the panic attack, not the other way around. All panic attacks can be mentally conquered, and your body can always be returned to normality from one (I use "can" in the theoretical sense; it is entirely possible that circumstances, most notably a person's psychological state at the time, can stop a person from bringing themselves out of a panic attack).

I have to correct you there. Panic attacks that are pharmacologically triggered cannot be mentally conquered, same reason certain panicogen piperazines are highly dangerous and hazardous to your mental health.

Pharmacologically provoked panic attacks are the most dangerous, this includes marijuana-triggered ones.

Quote:

Are you also prepared to say that exercising induces panic attacks?

I dont know how well you planned that, but yes I am. Exercise is one of the main causes of panic attacks. People with panic disorder get panic attacks constantly, just from walking up or down some stairs. So you probably found another correlation there.

Quote:

Conclusions drawn from synthetic cannabinoids must be applied either universally or only to those cannabinoids, logically (that is not to say that it is necessary logical to apply conclusions universally, only that you cannot apply the conclusions to some untested versions and not to others)

You obviously dont really understand the pharmacological means of cannabinoids role in the amygdala. THC is a CB1 agonist, which means that it will affect all brain areas that have high numbers of CB1 receptors, which the amygdala has, therefore the study can be applied universally. All cannabinoids that are CB1- or non-CB1 (cb2) agonists modulate excitatory or inhibitory behavior in the synaptic transmission patterns of these braincells in the amygdala. That therefore involves THC, CBD and so on.

10-23-2007, 06:23 AM	#24
ITG Sr. Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 786 Diggs: 0 Grams: 11,563.15 Groans: 1 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 56 Thanked 120 Times in 79 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I just looked at all three of the links to studies. Two (1st and 3rd) of them only gave me the abstract, and in neither abstract did they say anything that could be construed as "marijuana can induce panic attacks." The FIRST abstract is obviously fairly meaningless, since it uses synthetic cannabinoids, which are neither the cannabinoids found in THC nor the cannabinoids found naturally in your body. The third link said absolutely nothing about panic attacks at all. The second one did. But, if you read assiduously, then you would have noticed how they used "may cause." They are not saying that it does. They're not even really saying that it can. They're saying that it's POSSIBLE that it can. They have no evidence that the cannabinoids are ever directly causing panic attacks. If there was a clear, direct correlation, then it would have been listed in the results section, not the discussion. (I'd also like to point out that the abstract of the third link directly contradicts the second link's hypothesis that mj can automatically open reward paths in the brain). And we now come to the really important part- even IF cannabis was proven to sometimes induce a panic attack, then that doesn't change the overarching fact that it is STILL A PANIC ATTACK. Panic attacks are ALL in your head, no matter WHAT triggered them. The body changes in a psychosomatic manner to match the panic attack, not the other way around. All panic attacks can be mentally conquered, and your body can always be returned to normality from one (I use "can" in the theoretical sense; it is entirely possible that circumstances, most notably a person's psychological state at the time, can stop a person from bringing themselves out of a panic attack). Besides, like I said, none of those studies studied cannabis, but synthetic cannabinoids. Conclusions drawn from synthetic cannabinoids must be applied either universally or only to those cannabinoids, logically (that is not to say that it is necessary logical to apply conclusions universally, only that you cannot apply the conclusions to some untested versions and not to others). Your body produces cannabinoids while exercising. Are you also prepared to say that exercising induces panic attacks? So. In summary. The first link is meaningless to this debate because the abstract is the only part visible unless you pay, and the abstract makes no mention of panic attacks and specifically states that they are using synthetic cannabinoids. The third is meaningless because, again, the only part we can see is the abstract, and it also makes no mention of panic attacks. The second is a full lab report, but it also used synthetic cannabinoids, and did not in fact conclude that "cannabis triggers panic attacks." Or anything similar to that. Finally, it's moot anyway, because no matter what triggers a panic attack, the solution is always the same- fully believe that it is in your head, that it will go away if you tell it to, and then tell it to. The unfortunate part is that it's very hard for people experiencing a panic attack to fully embrace the idea that their body is actually perfectly healthy, the brain just thinks it isn't so it tells the body to give it the signals that it's unhealthy. That is what is happening. But sometimes it's not easy to believe, and if you don't believe it, then you're going to have a much harder time calming yourself down. __________________ No worries, mate... No worries at all... Marijuana.com Chat

10-23-2007, 07:04 PM	#26
dedbr Domestic War Vet News Adm Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 6,676 Diggs: 0 Grams: 46,325.20 Groans: 11 Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts Thanks: 2,195 Thanked 2,000 Times in 860 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I would advise extreme caution in using any advice from us, also. What works for some may not work for others. It is always best to consult a doctor..... Panic attacks are not a laughing matter, and my ability to control my personal self doesn't mean that evey one could do it. I ain't no doctor, that's for sure.....cause I is.... Some Where In Ded Land......... A really cool spot...... __________________ "Underneath this mask is more than flesh, underneath this mask is an idea, Mr Creeley, and idea's are bulletproof!" V For Vendetta I passed my drug test.....with a sixty five..... New to our home? A lot of questions can be answered with our Posting Guidelines ........ http://www.marijuana.com/introductio...uidelines.html What's a gram? Read our Gram Guidelines and find out...........http://www.marijuana.com/add-article/77170-marijuana-grams-system.html

11-02-2007, 11:37 AM	#29
phaedrus28 New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9 Diggs: 0 Grams: 576.15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I'd been a regular smoker of pot for several years, and never experienced anything other than complete and utter bliss. Then one day I smoked my usual amount, at home, by myself in comfortable setting, and had one of the worst experiences of my life. I guess you could describe it as a panic attack - the sensations wracking my body and mind were so intensely uncomfortable that I genuinely believed I had overdone it and was going to die. I got an ambulance to take me to the ER, where I waited in a horrible little white room to have an ECG, only to be pronounced 'fine' by a rather bored looking doctor. Then I sat in a corner of the waiting room, waiting for my partner to come and rescue me from neon hell. It took me 2 days to fully recover. Had several more after that, in an attempt to establish whether it was a once-off or not. Not as intense, because at least I knew what was happening to me, but still horrific. During this time and the following months I discovered a little secret to help me cope, both physically and psychologically - have a really hot shower, and stay in it as long as you need until you start to feel better. Don't worry about saving water or power! It really works, and because I know I have the hot shower as a safety blanket, I've been able to very, very slowly wean myself back onto the blessed herb, to the point where I no longer have heart palpitations every time I even get a whiff of the stuff. I'd like to think that I've come out the other side of a rather long tunnel (it's taken me over a year to reach this point) so Luke, use the shower. It suffocates all the panic inside you, as if you were being massaged in your mother's womb again. Yes, pot can cause massive panic attacks that last for hours and hours, and I still don't understand why it happened to me when it did, but I guess there was a reason, and I've had to accept that I'll never really know what that reason is. But at least I can smoke again now. I really understand how awful these attacks can be. Last edited by phaedrus28 : 11-02-2007 at 11:44 AM.

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10-23-2007, 05:49 AM	#23
Stonedmason New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 70 Diggs: 0 Grams: 1,355.01 Groans: 2 Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	JEsus its completely curable, I'm living proof. Jesus I feel good

10-23-2007, 08:24 AM	#25
Stonedmason New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 70 Diggs: 0 Grams: 1,355.01 Groans: 2 Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I have two very important links for people. People from a mental health program I stayed at found them for me and printed them off while I was staying at their safe beds program. They've helped me a shitload....hahaha, to smoke all the weed I want, lol, not exactly their goal I'm sure... Jesus I'm high. ah yes the links... Panic-Attack-Pages coping

10-24-2007, 04:25 PM	#27
Zilve New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 52 Diggs: 0 Grams: 799.60 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I've had a lotta paranoid as fuck sessions and one straight up flip out panic attack. There was one time I smoked 6 bowls in about 30 minutes thinking the stuff was crap (since the guy i got it from was outta town) sure enough this was the one time that this little kid"dude u'll get soo highhhh" guy was right. I think it really has everything to do with set and setting. (as most will tell u) Since i was by myself I was literally lost in my own world for a while. The minute my roommates came home i was just fine again. I also used to smoke in a buddy's attic for hours a day. I mean class gets out at 11:30 so sometimes id be there from then until 8 or 9pm (even later on fridays if we werent going to the bar or something) and we would just order a food, watch tv, playstation smoke and have friends over. If I smoked during the day I would be fine, go see the girlfriend or go for a run or head to the park or just chill with friends, even get homework done. But if I would smoke at night I would start bugging about how i was going to get to my dorm without getting caught being stoned as fuck (since 5+ hours of bong rips will do that). Now I moved into my own apartment and I dont think i've flipped over the issue once. There was another time all my friends got into a fight at the party and i was just too stoned to deal. Paranoia trip lasted hours that time Its always been a very social thing for me. If my friends didn't really smoke much id definitely smoke a shit ton less. One of my friends who I found out smoked started smoking with me on a constant basis. Hes one of those people who just never lets things bother him, always chilled out and likes to consider stuff with a cool head. I've also for some reason never been paranoid when smoking with him I think a good half of peoples paranoia and panic attacks wouldnt happen if marijuana was legalized and people werent so judgemental about how high you are

10-24-2007, 10:56 PM	#28
Moe Szyslak New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 39 Diggs: 0 Grams: 995.95 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 10 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I get panic attacks occasionally when I'm really high. It seems to happen more with better bud. Mine will only happen when I'm awaken from sleep & I can't see anything because the room is dark. I'm not afraid of the dark, but if I wake up & can't see anything in the room, my first instincts are to go outside & try to find light. I don't even think about hitting the light switch, I just lose my freakin' mind! The last one I had happened when power went out one night. I was high as hell & had just fallen asleep. The fan stopped running when the power went out, so that woke me up. I couldn't see anything, so I instantly ran into the bathroom to look out the front window. I had to seriously stop myself from going to my car, in my underwear, to drive to see how far out the power outage was. I finally talked myself out of it & lit a candle. I was feeling better in about 10 minutes. I wish I had some more advice on how to deal with them, but there seems to be some good advice in this thread.

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