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CLUBFOOT

i still dont see how jmi was that far out compared to the other groups. now if you are talking about his guitar solos thats a different story. yeah he ws defintely on a different planet when it cam to solos. but you would have to name some of examples of songs that had musical beds that were any different than the typical blues/ rock songs that were around during that time and changed the direction of popular music.

and where do you think the Beach Boys and the Beatles got the influence to go psychedelic? They certainly didn't start it. It was from bands like the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Moby Grape. The San Francisco Psychedelic scene.

i think that that is correct but i dont think they got it from jimi hendrix .

 

schwadood

Jimi hendrix was one of the first people to truly experiment with what an electric instrument can do. For example, feedback and squels and effects, and then you got his guitar playing, which I could go on and on about. Both of these reasons are why I see Jimi as genius and a man much ahead of his time. If you want an example listen to 1983 . . . A Merman i should turn to be.

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CLUBFOOT

yeah . i agree that jimi was a genius or very brilliant but not in the area of song structure. his experimentation with sound was groundbreaking and did change the way solos are played but the basic structure of musical beds stayed the same throughout the 70s until punk and new wave came along.

deadhed

I'll side with CLUBFOOT partially in saying that his songs were blues based, but they were nowhere near formulaic. I can't think of one Hendrix song played with a strict I IV V chord change, and his instrumentations are out of this world. As for the Beach Boys and the Beatles, I think Hendrix was a far greater influence than the Dead or The Fug or other SF bands. These bands were mainly cult acts playing in the Bay area. Hendrix, Big Brother, and Jefferson Airplane were the ones that brought the music to the mainstream and across the Atlantic. Hendrix, in my opinion, was the foremost among the groups mentioned above. When you think about it though, all psychedelic bands are firmly rooted in the blues and folk music. The Dead to be sure, Big Brother definately, the Fug surely, Jefferson Airplane to a lesser extent, Holy Modal Rounders definately. The SF sound was generally (with a few notable exceptions) blues with an acid twist.

I love this forum. I get to have all my music debates that few of my friends want to have. And the friends that I do talk music with all agree with me

schwadood

You are right that he never did that much with song structure, but deadhead has a good point that his songs were never formulaic. He never had many strict I-IV-V changes, he did a lot of variations. Even Voodoo Chile (slight return), a ripping blues jam, is not a straight up blues song.

If nothing else, he showed people that it is alright to experiment.

 

CLUBFOOT

im glad you are enjoying the debate the debate deadhed.
i dont want to participate in historical revisionism and my beatles knowledge is limited but let me lay out the pieces of this puzzle that i am aware of. the beatles were making their sort of clean blues based pop as we know in the mid 60s. john lennon meets bob dylan. dylan tells lennon that the beatles lyrics have no depth. lennon goes back to paul and they right rubber soul. an album that was different than their others. brian wilson hears rubber soul and writes pet sounds. the beatles hear pet sounds and write sgt . peppers. once we have gotten to sgt. peppers , the rest of the psychedelic puzzle falls into place.

now to me the missing pieces are did the mammas and the pappas have an influence? did the birds?

t0ker

Whoa, this thread is really something

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dedbr

was a three year project.Strictly Beatles I would say....

Jimi layed the groundwork for the years of guitar experimentation that followed.His solo's were the head turners back then that you don't get nowadays because it seems there is no new sounds out there,no new focus or direction for music to take.

Thats what Hendrix was.Didn't really write that great of songs,his best were Bob Dylans,but he took the crowds and the world of music in a different direction.He opened doors that might of stayed shut for years.
Of course,the bands of the time took leads off of each other,because in a way,none of them knew where they were going.Things were changing so fast that no one seemed to be able to keep up.
One thing to remember in all this is the Black music that was going on at this time was really great,but here is a black man doing his version of white rock and roll music.A lot of pressure that way,too.

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CLUBFOOT

nowadays because it seems there is no new sounds out there,no new focus or direction for music to take. "


what about tom morello from rage against the machine . to say that he has not found and experimented with new sounds would be unfair to him. many have compared his experimentation to that of jimi. my objection would be that h doesnt play traditonal style solos. if he would i think he'd catch the ear of some older people.

Thats what Hendrix was.Didn't really write that great of songs,his best were Bob Dylans


thats all i was trying to say. his solos were great. his music was only o.k. your placement of jimi in history depends on how important songwriting is to you. if its very important,as it is for me, then i cant place jimi that high.

A lot of pressure that way,too.

yeah. i heard the black panthers asked him to join andwhen he didnt they bad mouthed him.

Bailey1138

Personally, I think songwriting and musicianship are 2 separate things. You can be a great songwriter and an alright musician, or an alright songwriter and a fantastic musician. Hendrix was definitely an incredible guitar player. He's one of those few guys who changed all the rules. I really dig most of his songs anyway, but that's my opinion. Lyrically lacking a little bit (he definitely could've used a little help on a few tunes), but I don't listen to Third Stone from the Sun for the lyrics, I listen to it because......well, just listen to it

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