Logos

I posted this to the front page, and wanted to cross post it here to give our Cheap Talk members who don't frequent the front page an opportunity to share any feedback they might have.

I suppose that I'm getting bored with just regurgitating news here. I have a strong desire to write my stoned epiphanies where others can possibly benefit from them.

I’m no professional writer, so bear with me while I explore a few thoughts with you. On that same note, even if you aren’t a professional writer, I’d like to see anything you’d like to write about and submit.

I'm working to make this a regular occurrence here.

I intend to explore the basics of life. I think that sometimes we get so caught up with the physical aspect of our existence that we forget all about the spiritual part.

I won’t go into the whole God vs Gods argument. I feel that all systems of belief have enough that is the same that the differences are irrelevant. There are a few evil exceptions that I won’t venture into more than to point out the things that I view in this world that are evil, and why. In my opinion, all “good” systems of belief basically preach the message that we should treat other people with the same respect we would like to receive from them. The “Golden Rule” if you will. Or, simply put “Be Kind To Each other”.

God gave us free will, and we have knowledge of the concepts of good and evil. Our job is to meet freedom with responsibility. Who can argue that the golden rule isn’t a good way to live a fulfilling life?

If one thing can be said about nature it is that animals do not perceive the concepts of good and evil. In nature, laws of nature, and survival of the fittest dictate everything.

I don’t believe it is that animals don’t have souls, I’m fairly certain that they do. What they don’t have is an understanding of the concepts of good and evil. To them everything is all about survival.

Freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. If a free society were inhabited by nothing but responsible people, everyone could be truly free. We introduce laws to force people to be responsible, even for those who are responsible; we hold over the heads of the potentially irresponsible the threat of discomfort. We incarcerate those whom we view as not being responsible with their freedom; we take that freedom from them. There is nothing wrong with that except when people are assumed to be irresponsible before ever exhibiting any irresponsible behavior. Irresponsible people should be made to make amends to the exact amount of their harm. No more, no less, in all fairness.

There are a lot of marijuana smokers out there, of all of them, what percentage would you guess are irresponsible while under the influence?

Marijuana has taught me a better understanding between freedom and responsibility. I should be allowed to grow and consume marijuana as long as my behavior remains responsible. When it crosses that line, then the problem should be dealt with by removing my freedom by an acceptable degree.

Do you think that a free society where anyone can grow and consume marijuana would be a disaster? Or do you think that we would choose peace over greed?

Logos


In the beginning...
Click the link to read the lyrics to "Peace not Greed" by The KottonMouth Kings, and to see what those who don't frequent Cheaptalk have to say.

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The more I learn, the less I know. | Truth doesn't change, only our perception of it does.
THC Ministry | The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ | The Reluctant Messenger of Science and Religion
True religion is real living, living with all one's soul, with all ones goodness and righteousness. --Albert Einstein

punx

disaster: no i don't think a free society where anyone can grow and comsume marijuana would be, they already proved that in holland.

peace over greed: i'm with greed. like 2pac said, **** peace and the police.

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Logos

How has that been poroven in Holland? Elaborate please...

Is that your consience talking, or your presonnal desire for inequality?

Peace Not Greed!

beats

It hasn't been completely been proven in Holland (amsterdam), seeing how you can't smoke it just anywhere..and can't grow.

They have shown however, that it can be a success with allowing people to smoke, and there hasn't been any negative consequences worth talking about.

I personally believe as long as it doesn't become such a commercially regulated product, like tobacco, or alcohol, it could be a success, But when large corporations get involved, and monopolize the market, it really could go downhill quickly.

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Logos

I am attempting to grow my own tobacco. I really don't appreciate how corporate America has poisoned something that the Native Americans felt was highly spiritual.

I find it amusing how you hear all these commercials about how poisonous the tobacco is, yet instead of forcing the industry to clean up its act with purity laws, we try to guilt trip people into quitting.

THere weren't any instances of the diseases that modern tobacco causes before they were mass produced.

Along that vein, I feel that if corporate America got ahold of marijuana, people would start dying from its use.

I would only be happy if I could be allowed to grow my own, as I do with tobacco.

punx

what i meant by what they proved in holland was that they have proved that with freedom of marijuana, in a coffee shop, and the owner of the coffee shop has the freedom of growing marijuana, and the people go there to smoke marijuana and drink coffee and such, so they already proved that a free society where anyone can grow and consume marijuana would'nt be a disaster.

also i think that growing tobacco is a great idea, then you would feel like you've accomplished something and not have to worry about all the chemicals that the retailers put in cigarettes.
but ya know they sell 100% tobocco as well, i think it's a french brand, whatever it's called, i've tried it before, really good.

i'd buy that over dunhill international, and they're cheaper than those, but i don't know about you, all i'm sayin is i think growin your own tobacco would be a great idea.

i don't know which is harder to grow, marijuana or tobacco?

JTP

Ok, I agree with what you wrote as well. I would tend to think that the irresponsible pot smokers coincide with the irresponsible people in general, about 25% in my opinion. I also do not think that the legalization of MJ would adversely affect the society of the US or any other country. I would, however, hold the line at just MJ. Not that I don't feel that the full legalization of every drug would be bad, just a completely unrealistic. In my own efforts I make very clear that responsible MJ usage occurs just like responsible alcohol usage, no differences.

On the topic of tobacco, don't blame corporate America - blame trial lawyers. Phillip Morris and Reynolds were very much in support of tobacco.

solutions

Without trying to be an ass: for the record, the country's official long name is "Kingdom of the Netherlands" the short name "the Netherlands", Amsterdam is it's capitol, "Holland" is an often used unofficial name for the Netherlands, but officially the name of 2 (of 12) provinces: Noord-Holland (Amsterdam, Haarlem) and Zuid-Holland (Rotterdam, the Hague).
I agree, I feel I can call this a relatively free society. Anyone can grow and consume marijuana, and it's hardly a disaster . The coffeeshops have been tolerated for over 30 years. Personal use and growth (max 5 plants) of mj is not punishable. If I would walk into a police station smoking a joint, they would probably just ask me to put it out, since smoking isn't allowed in public buildings. Smoking mj outside is allowed.

A coffeeshop owner is not allowed to grow mj though. This is one of the imperfections in the system. The shops are allowed to have max 500 grams on site, but the supply to the coffeeshop is still illegal (so called backdoor-problem). There are 2 licensed commercial growers, they provide pharmacies with medical mj.

As for proven it's value, I can go on for hours. Consumption of mj is lower than in the US, and by seperating the markets for MJ and harddrugs the use of the latter is even less. There is hardly any crime surrounding coffeeshops (not more than bars anyway), and satisfied mj-smokers have proven not to be troublemakers.

As for off-topic drugs, I favor decriminalization, not complete legalization, a healthcare approach over incarceration because of irresponsible use of freedom. With not having the police hunting users down, the problem doesn't go underground, so users can get medical/detox help without fear of getting thrown in jail.

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3 monkeys sitting under a coconut tree
discussing things as they are set to be
Said one to the other, now listen you two
there's a strange rumor that can't be true
they say man was descended from our noble race
but the very idea is a big disgrace
no monkey ever deserted his wife
or her baby to ruin their lives.
Damian Marley - Educated Fools

Logos

Hey Solutions, I have been thinking it would be really cool to have the "Kingdom of the Netherlands" represented on this site.

I as well as most Americans just don't have much of a concept of how things work there, and I'm surious if you'd be interested in doing a little writing for the front page to describe basically the same thing you just described here.

A one time thing, or a regular installment thing, or anything in between would help us to understand a society where tolerance is the word of the day.

I think your views could help to bring our views into line and demystify your country's attitudes regarding marijuana and how it's consumption should be handled.

Slide me a PM if you are at all interested in doing this.

solutions

I may be a lazy bastard with a fear of commitment, but that just sounds like too much of an honour to turn down Logos. I'll give it some thought and PM you shortly. Peace