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SevenLeafs

Thanks for clearing things a bit about the Old and New testament Buzz. To be honest, I didn't know very well what the difference was.

Anyways, I think that it can still be related with what I am trying to say. You say there that the way to have a good relationship with our "Father" is to follow the rules so we can have a stable society. Then, in regards to the Samurai story, you state that "the first is selfish anger and the second is a centered mind". The first would be a sin.

If I'm correct, one of the seven deadly sins is uncontrolled anger right? (Pride, Sloth, Greed, Envy, Anger, Lust, and Gluttony), so, according to the story and to the bible, the Samurai sinned. Afterwards, he realized he was mistaken, and chose to act according to "righteousness". Wouldn't you agree that in that very moment the Samurai went through hell, then stepped into the purgatory and finally arrived at heaven?

I do.

You say that when he, the Samurai, sheathes his sword he is in a "centered mind". I also agree with this, and that is exactly what I try to explain in this thread.

With a centered mind (IMO) you can control your emotions, because you "balance" all the energies that are within you, willingly (remember free will? if you want to control them, go ahead, if not, then go ahead).

If we are to have a "stable" society, then we need to control our emotions - and we have done this, to a certain extent. I think that the "control" that we use now-a-days is Hypocrisy. I know it sounds a bit rough, or childish even, but don't you think that we use to control our emotions through this action?

We tend to "put aside" (not control, but repress) anything that bothers us, so that we do not act violently or irrationaly and disrespect someone else, even-though they may be disrespecting us (turn the other cheek).

We (IMO) don't tend to calm ourselves, analyze the situation, center our minds and then proceed to "see" the best course of action (one which will not disrespect anyone, but that will "benefit" everyone - if this is possible, off course).

This last is what I have been doing over the last two years, and it seems to me very effective; almost every time I apply this, someone comes out happy, instead of what would have been chaos.

I am enjoying this intellectual exchange, but I fear I am rambling on too much in this post.... any thoughts?

Peace.7L

PS: sorry matty86, welcome to the forums! . I think that what you say in your first post is most important:

The key words in this quote are "near" and "pre-etched" (IMO). You say that it is near impossible to control our emotions, and I tend to agree.

It is very hard to do so, but it is also hard (I would say extremely) to learn how to walk... crawl even! We spend, on average, no less than a year to learn how to crawl (no official information here). We could say it is nearly impossible for an infant to learn how to walk, however, we have almost always achieved it at the end (I say almost because there is a very high probability that some infants do not learn how to walk, or do learn, but never accomplish it).

The same goes for emotions, they are very hard to understand, control, and use at will, but with some practice, I am sure we can achieve it. And to make reference to Buzzby here, I am sure that there will be a time when we can control them without the need for laws, rules, "principles", etc...

If you want proof that this can be done, look into the past of Japanese culture (more exclusively into how the Samurai controlled themselves; they only used 1 general law: respect).

PPS: haven't read your link, will do so, soon (also, thanks for that info )

EDIT: (heh... sorry Matty, I forgot to finish the idea, but I'm back now and have repaired the post! *tada!*..... eh..... )

(2nd Edit: From this point on, consider this a second post)

As I said previously (ahem...), there are two key words in the quote, the second one being "pre-etched".

We are born with emotions, we have never lived without them (NEVER!, even as cave men we would go "uga, I feel bad Tunko, ugaluga" hehe.... ), but we must learn to control them (not to override or delete , but to understand and better them).

This is explained by the several "fluids" (hormones and what not) that go through our body and "tell us" what to do. When we are hungry, we seek food; if we don't get food, we stress out; then we get frustrated and even angry. It's a simple "unbalance" in our system, we need to repair that. These are irrational emotions (uhm... isn't every emotion irrational?) that help us "survive", in the primitive sense of the word, but today we are born (average) into this "safe world" that's only trying to make itself better, so we really have no need to survive!.

(waaaayy off topic idea: ) We only learn to do a job, which helps many others and yourself survive throughout each day. I think this is the basis of our economy (or what should be): a big "survival" industry. (ok, end of ramble... on with the topic)

Therefore, we see babies crying, laughing, jumping, kicking, screaming, playing, etc... [interesting thing, I was trying to name a few actions/emotions and the ones that came easier were negative.... hmmm... any thoughs?] and adults getting frustrated, enjoying dinners, getting bored, and on and on...

So, do you think it's right to supress the emotions?, or "control" them by letting them be and understanding the consequences of our actions and therefore, having decided, before letting the emotions flow, if those consequences are deemed "right" or "wrong"?.

I think the next big step, after what is previously mentioned, would be to have solid "beliefs" and never go against these beliefs, and that if you feel that a "characteristic", if you will, of those beliefs goes against the same belief, then seek why and how to solve that "problem" - again, considering the same belief.

For instance, if you believe in respect, then act accordingly. If you, at a certain time, feel you have been disrespected, then seek how to right that wrong following the same principles. Don't seek to disrespect anyone (vengeance), but seek the way to note that disrespect and make it visible to everyone; let everyone understand why it is disrespectful to you.

(I think this last is what was wrong with Socrates' - according to Plato's Republic - view of the law, he considered it flawless, because of the time and place, off course)

Reflecting on this now, I think many "youngsters" (of mind and body ) will be saying something along the lines of: "are you crazy man?, do you want me to ridicule myself even more? (like if that "letting everyone know about the disrespect" would only mean that they would have to "stand up" to their problem, like saying to the math problem "you are tough, don't be like that!" and thinking that that would solve the problem :P), just about now.

(Peace)

__________________

"A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit"
- Pink Floyd -

Just say KNOW!

 

SevenLeafs

Wow...

Thank you Matty, for that amazing link, although I haven't finished reading it. I feel I don't need to though, but I will. It feels like I wrote it, it's simply amazing (are you around Mamabudz?).

In some way, you have helped me finalize my ideas about many things, now I can begin writing them

You do not know how grateful I am at this point, and I would like to sum up this thread's initial idea by quoting this from the article:

That would be a very good description of myself.

Peace.7L

PS: we have always been taught about life, the thing is that no one ever taught us how to learn. Therefore, we usually don't understand.