macphearsome

the water tests were not double-blinded, and thus I cannot take them seriously.

I can't take any of the movie seriously, mostly because it was funded by some women who claims to channel a thousand year old atlantis god named Ramtha.



the movie might have instilled some sort of sense of awe for anybody not already half-familiar with quantum mechanics and/or spirituality, but in my opinion, that doesn't make up for the pure intellectual dishonesty resounding throughout.

no good scientist will agree with the "evidence" used in the film and no good spiritualist should need to see science so cruely bastardized in order to practice their spirituality.


my two cents!

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Richi

How would you go about performing a double-blind study where the subject is water?

I guess you consider your wealth of knowledge more valuable than that of several physicists and neurologists with Ph. D.'s. Although contradictory and controversial in some aspects, I still value the opinions and knowledge of the people behind it. I would not go so far as to name it "pure intellectual dishonesty".

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Broliette

Definitely a film worth seeing. At the very least it makes you look at possibilities in a different perspective

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Broliette

There is a lot of discrepancy and criticism to the films validity and point. The intermixing of quantum physics to spirituality, the water test, the tale of Columbus and the ships, David Albert, and the fact that 3 of the people involved were students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment; or the entire concept of Ramtha being channeled in itself....

Nonetheless, even with all that it still had a few good points for me.

The simple thought that most people are addicted to their emotions; feelings. Many people feed or react to the explosion of whatever feeling they are experiencing instead of analyzing and picking a rationale response.

The other, how we affect our reality, I think is true to a point internally. What we percieve as positive or negative, how we "visualize" or label something in our minds to a particular situation.

My favorite part is when JZ Knight/Ramtha points out this....

"It only takes one sexual fantasy for a man to have a hard-on...it only takes one thought here (mind) for a man to have an erection in his member. And yet there was nothing outside of him that gave him that. It was what was WITHIN him that gave him that."

It's all perspective man

Pilo

Ok so I'm gonna bring some skepticism to this topic since I just saw it and almost puked my guts out.
This people actually had a bunch of scientist saying a bunch of shit. Yes, they use a lot of facts about quantum physics, but they fail to present any evidence for all of the things they claim.
They actually say that you "could walk on water" if you wanted. Seriously, if they wanted to prove something like that they could at least show somebody like Chris Angel or something doing it.
Anyways, if you want to know the truth you have to do your own research and since is going to take you a long time to know much about quantum physics to actually have an idea of the truth. I can tell you right now that although quantum physics is extremely strange, claiming that thoughs shape them however the observer wants it to be is completely false. When it was first observed that without an observer the particles behaved like waves and after adding an observer oddly it acted as single particles that were in two places at the same time, it raised a lot of eyebrows. But the truth is, that this science is fairly new and not a lot is known yet. So, I would wait until more information is available before passing any judgement.

Logos

Nice Richi...

“For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)

I read a book titled The Holographic Universe once, then got into Wayne Dwyer and after discussing some of the concepts I had discovered with others, a number of people told me I should see this movie. I had also already read Hidden Messages In Water, so when I finally saw it I was fairly blown away.

The extras on the DVD are interesting as well, and the newer version has lots of interview material that wasn't in the original or so I hear.

I found it very interesting and thought provoking to say the least.

A note on the Hidden messages in water, there was another experiment that was done, not scientifically controlled I'm sure, but it involved various households who set out two bowls of rice to one they said I love you, to the other they said I hate you, the one that was loved fermented as it should, the other rotted, they added a third bowl at some point that was completely ignored and it fared worse than the one that received the hatred. It would be interesting to see that done to scientific standards if that is even possible. Just don't try that with McDonald fries, they never change apparently. (but that is another documentary...

I don't mean to take this too far into the religious realm, but Jesus said that anyone could do all of the things he had done, and even greater things, even the least among us, if we but believed. I have found a number of his teachings that flow well with the things that movies like this and The Secret portray.

Anyway, my 1 cent worth.

Peace and Love

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Leo420

I read last year that the 'messages in water' research was faked, I'm trying to find the story now....

...Ah, masses of stuff on it. Here's a taster of random quotes about his 'work': I've got a bunch of links if anyone's interested in this stuff and the general crappo talked about 'cluster water'. Bunk.

1)) Emoto’s degree was from the Open International University in India, where an M.D. degree costs $500 and a Ph.D. costs $350, no classes or tests required.

2)) He classifies the crystals into eight ill-defined categories that he apparently made up. In his analysis of crystals from water from the Honmyo River, he found this distribution:

Beautiful: 2
Rather beautiful: 4
Hexagonal pattern: 0
Radial pattern: 8
Lattice pattern: 8
Indefinite pattern: 29
Collapsed pattern: 3
No crystal formation: 0

In this case, he chose a beautiful crystal to represent the sample, because although there were only two beautiful crystals out of fifty, there were others that were in the process or had the potential to make beautiful crystals. Eminently rational, don't you think?

2)) Emoto's work does not adhere to the long established practices and procedures of the Scientific Method, such as Double blind controls, which have been developed to reduce the effect of statistical anomalies and experimenter bias. As a result, critics of Emoto point out that his experiments are highly susceptible to selection bias and confirmation bias, with the photographers having full knowledge of both the hypothesis and expected result. For example, the person taking the photographs or the person judging the beauty of the photographs knows which water samples have been sent which messages. The photographer or judge’s attitudes towards Emoto’s claims - either sympathetic or skeptical - could distort their choice and ranking of photos, causing them to (knowingly or not) hunt through the diversity of crystals in each sample to look for those that match their expectations.

Even sympathetic commentators have criticized Emoto for insufficient experimental controls, and for not sharing enough details of his approach with the scientific community. In addition, Emoto has been criticized for designing his experiments in ways that leave them open to human error influencing his findings.

In the day-to-day work of his group, the creativity of the photographers rather than the rigor of the experiment is an explicit policy of Emoto. Emoto freely acknowledges that he is not a scientist, and that photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs.

Time and again it's the same criticisms. He wont submit any findings for peer review, and openly says that he purposely chooses the shapes that he wants to find from his samples.

"...The James Randi Educational Foundation has offered Emoto a million dollar prize if he can demonstrate his “water messages” using double-blind testing techniques (wherein the photographer looking at the crystals doesn’t know how they’ve been “treated” beforehand). Emoto has so far refused...."

Instead he chooses to sell 'healing water' at a pretty astonishing profit from his website, it's easier than proving anything innit?

Leo

HaHaCharadeYouAre

"Drugs Are the Religion of the People — The Only Hope is Dope"
"I am 100 percent in favor of the intelligent use of drugs, and 1,000 percent against the thoughtless use of them, whether caffeine or LSD. And drugs are not central to my life."
"The universe is an intelligence test."
"If you want to change the way people respond to you, change the way you respond to people."
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--Dr.Timothy Leary

dan3

I'm watching this right now. The preview got me thinking so much lol. Ill edit this when im done

*edit Wow this was amazing.. I'm so confused*

zappy

This movie was definitely thought provoking, although they seemed to dance around a lot of ideas without really giving us any solid information. One of the most prominent speakers in the film named "Ramtha" is a cultist crackpot who believes she channels ancients spirits. Seriously look up her name. It's all just speculation. The whole thing about crystals "knowing" how to form has since been proven to be a load of shit. The filmmakers also misrepresented several scientists with film editing against their wishes. Very few scientists agree in such a collective consciousness. Most of the 'science' in this film is pseudo scientific bullshit. No physicist would agree that the unpredictability of sub atomic particles could also apply to larger objects like ourselves. Quantum mechanics is not related in any way to the spiritual bullshit in this film. The filmmakers distorted scientific facts in order to 'prove' their mystical viewpoint. This film really left me thinking to myself. What the **** do the filmmakers know?