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ImALittlePea

ok, here's how causality works: EVERYTHING HAS A CAUSE. even the universe. the universe's cause, as far as scientists believe now, was the big bang... so what caused that?

religious folks say god, non-religious types say that there was a previous universe who's component's exploded into ours...

the thing that's so baffeling about the universe is that it could be the thing that has no cause.

this is, of course, just a theory. one of the really scary implications of causality is the following argument:

"All events are the product of preceding conditions.
Human thoughts are events.
therefore, all human thoughts are the product of preceding conditions."

if this is the case, it seems logical that everything we think is simply the result another thought, impulse, stimulus... and if that's true, then our thoughts are rather predictable... is that how advertising works? ;-) see-titties-buy-beer!

that, of course, contradicts the free will idea, which is why religious types don't like causality all that much. I like to think that the conditions that stimulate our thoughts originate from within us, and that's pretty much free will... but what do i know, i'm just some stupid pothead, right? ;-)

__________________
Free Will is the basis of our judicial system
Causality is the basis of our Prison system.
Causality and Free Will are opposing philosophies.

 

ImALittlePea

the funny thing is that if you get far enough away (and space is limitless, as it expands faster than anything can travel), anything can appear infinitely dense and minute. so, it is possible that the 'big bang' has been occuring since long b4 'time,' and our conciousness exists only as we are able to discern it from our current spacial standpoint :-)

Kibbatoz

What I don't get is how is the universe expanding?what else is there after the universe inorder for it to expand.My belife is the universe is what nothing would be which means it goes on forever.

PreshwaterPHunk I agree with you.I think we will never truly know what it all means so why not live in the now and enjoy what you got and maybe after you die it all makes scense who knows and if you just die and nothing happens then Screw it it was all worth nothing.

__________________
Time is the master.
Time can be a disaster.

netel

As a physics major I figured I had to jump in on this one . This doesn't make me any sort of expert on the subject, but here goes anyway. Firstly there is quite a bit of evidence pointing towards the big bang (background microwave radiation + current rate of expansion of the universe), making it scientifically sound theory. Before the big bang happened however, it could have been possible that there was another universe, which collasped in on itself. Current research indicates that there is not enough mass to prevent the universe from expanding forever, however, it is very close to the amount which would be required for it to stop at a point. Should we find more mass, it could be possible that one day our universe will collapse in on itself, creating perhaps another big bang. Should this be the case, for how long has the universe been exploding/imploding? Another thing to ponder while toking

volume

Good god i will not get ONE WINK of sleep tonight!!! :eek"

__________________
I smoke marijuana, however:
- I am doing exceptionally well in high school
- I plan to attend University
- I will vote when i turn 18
- I do not indulge in other drugs, such as cocain or heroine

 

macphearsome

Almost, but not quite. From a distance, nothing appears infinitely dense and minute, rather, it just appears really, really, small.
Already read the whole thing. Hard to follow. I suggest Brian Greene's "Elegant Universe". Very effective analogies and explanations in his book, easy to read.
Essentially, it has to come down to something that has no cause. Whether it be God, the universe, or another universe. Here's what I do. I pull out my handy Ockhams razor, and go with "the universe has no cause". Ah, Atheism...

macphearsome

Well, one idea is that the universe (with the three main spatial dimensions) is wrapped around itself, in the same way that a globe is a two dimensional plane wrapped around a sphere. With this model of the universe, if you travelled in any one direction, you would eventually return to your starting point from the opposite direction that you travelled (this isn't entirely true, because this model of the universe also states that to travel around the universe would take longer than the predicted age of the universe, but you get my point). So there is no edge of the universe, in the same way that there is no edge of a globe. (as a disclaimer, I might add that this is only one of the theoretical models of the universe)

FootlongFatty

i find it incredible that things can actually exist in the first place. what created the ablity to exist? what created the big bang? these questions are answered when you realize that the way we perceive the world is primitive, ie. subjectively, but also beautifully at the same time, because it allows us to concentrate on the details of life. Utlimately the universe is infinite. Infinity answers all the questions. You ask, how long as this been for, and who created it, who created the creator, who created the ablity to even EXIST. the answer is nothing, it always has existed it always will exist, there was nothing that created it. everything exists always and everywhere, the seperation occurs when you become subjective like we have, you realize that the way you personally experience everything is Finite, and you think this applies to everything, but in fact you are not the control center of the universe, and this subjective view only applies to you.


either that, or there is an infinite amount of creators in an infinite amount of universes, constantly (read: at once) creating each
other successively forever, or for-never.

[/blazed rambling]

__________________
"In the future, scientists will prove we never even existed" -Sage.

ImALittlePea

'the universe has no cause' is pretty damn close to religion.

no, that is most definately NOT the essence of causality. causality is just another thing that goes on forever, and forever is a hard concept for some people to grasp. indeed, it's impossible for anyone to fully comprehend, as one attribute of 'infinite' is 'immeasureable' and another is 'incomprehensible.'

seriously, mac, something caused the first thing and therefore was the first thing that was caused by the thing before that...

you can count backwards forever for a reason.

zoltron

what a relief...I always thought that the 'big bang' was when the
bar is closing and you end up nailing some fat broad