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introspekt

In nature you find a lot of laws. Take gravity or ionic bonding for example. We may not be able to see these things with the naked eye, but we know its there. We see the effects of these things and call the cause gravity or magnetism or whatever it may be.

My question is this; What is moral law? Is there a difference between right and wrong? Or is there only truth? Does it matter one way or another if you decide to kidnap someone and torture them to death slowly just for the sadistic pleasure it may bring to someone who would enjoy this type of thing. Or is it morally wrong to kill someone slowly for pleasure. How would this make you feel or think if someone did this to one of your kids or friends? Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? Is something like this wrong or just uncomfortable?

Sorry I used such a morbid example, but it helps in making it more black and white. There are lots of examples you could use. Is stealing wrong? Is cheating on your spouse wrong? Is hurting others wrong? Or does it really even matter? If it does matter, why does it matter? Or why would you think it would be wrong? Or does it not really matter because it is just another painful truth of reality? Is it just a chemical reaction in the brain that causes you to be depressed or angry? Or are the chemical reactions in the brain set up that way purely for survival? To survive means to live on. Is there any reason or purpose in our lives other than stimulation to the senses or being able to rationalize?
I cant wait to hear what you think. Thanx!

 

sterbo

Great question introspekt

To make it simple.
We can postulate all day long and it won't matter because at the end of the day no one knows for a fact what the answer is.
That said, let the speculation begin...

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negaDuck

Ok, here's a dandy question for y'all:

When speaking of moral law, one must obviously think of tha bible and all it's teachings...base 1 for most moral arguments. Now, taking that into consideration, I believe there is a quote from said book that basically says "If you think about cheating on your wife, it's as if you have done so".

Now I ask you, if there is a natural moral law, separate from religion or christianity, would this hold true? Is tha thought taken for tha deed? I have horrible HORRIBLE thoughts just pop into my head sometimes (which is a whole different theory to speculate upon)....i mean shit I wouldn't do in a thousand lifetimes. Does this break a moral law, if we postulate that there IS one?


Oh, and smoke pot. now.

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sterbo

I don't see that at all. While I agree that the Bible has an avid (some might even say rabid) following of great magnitude, it is but one of many religions that some degree of the world's populace refers to regarding 'moral law'.


Of course there is. One does not have to subscribe to religious dogma to maintain moral considerations as a part of their life.
Sorry, I didn't get this part.


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Buzzby

It's an agreed-upon set of standards within a culture that determines what is acceptable behavior. It is often based, supposedly, on the dictates of one or more supernatural beings.

Of course there is. Within a culture, you get approbation for doing what is "right" under its moral code. You get disapproval (harsh words, ostracism, jail, summary execution) for doing what is "wrong". What is morally right in one culture is often morally wrong in another.

There are lots of truths. One to each person. Sometimes more than one...

For something to "matter" means that one or more entities care about it. It would certainly "matter" to law enforcement. If you are a believer in deities that forbid such behavior, then you would believe that it "matters" to them. It would certainly "matter" to the victim and the perpetrator. "Mattering", like "meaning" and "truth", has no external referents. It's a process that takes place in the mind. You could wipe out all life on Earth and the universe would just keep rolling merrily along.

It depends on what systems of morals you follow.

Christians and Jews, the groups deriving their moral system from the Bible are a minority on this planet. Other groups get their "moral compass" elsewhere.

If we postulate a moral law that includes bad thoughts on the "bad" side of the ledger, it most certainly would. I suggest you find a priest and confess your bad thoughts immediately. I understand that the weather in Hell is terrible this time of year.

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Incu_Volta87

Good topic, interesting subject. Though a tad touchy.

In my opinion, what divides Moral Right from Wrongs, is a thin red line of perseverance and ultimately perception. Of what life is. How you are brought up, how you are raised, how you witness life and creation around you.

People are brought up on tradition and values. They usually grow up with these morals and values and pass them onto their children. Unless you are of a free, absent of ignorance mind. Like all of us in this discussion, whom our open minds, have let us see the truth, and that some of our morals and values (that our parents/elders have taught us, and that of the our country/government) aren't always "right".

Because, like one stated in this discussion: Whats "right" in one culture, can be "wrong" in another.


There is a quote from the ancient Greeks: "A child on the shoulders of a giant, can see farther than the giant himself"

Though, i don't know if that has any relevance to the conversation or question to any of you. But it certainly does for me.

Look at the quote and think about the situation, and think about it.


Oh and by the way, I love talking about this kind of stuff. I could go on for hours.


But, time to smoke a fatty bowl

negaDuck

Buzz, Sterbo...if you would let me re arrange my words for a little better clarity I'd much appreciate it.


I was actually referring to ALL religious text. It was my mistake to mention tha bible by name

And I was saying that it's a common thing, from what I've heard, that tha deed is taken for tha action when it comes to sin. I think that there IS a natural moral law...too much evidence for it NOT to exist...but i was wondering if, in that NATURAL law, apart from tha doctrines of religion, does tha thought equal tha deed? If you THINK it, is that as immoral as if you DO it?

Buzzby

You'll have to define exactly what you mean by a "natural moral law" if you want an answer to that question. I've never seen any evidence supporting a "natural moral law", which, by my definition, is a set of principles that somehow governs human conduct without regard to the cultural context.

sterbo

I think not.
Humans have been blessed with free will and an ability to think and reason well beyond most (if not all) other species. For that ability to be of any benefit then we have to be able to ponder, to consider all that enters our conscientiousness - without prejudice.

I see this as one of the most central attributes allowed us so that we may grow spiritually, overcome our constraining traits, and move on in our natural evolution...

FunkySkunky

First of all, this is an incredibly subjective argument.

That said, this is a question that was addressed recently in my Ethics class and the essentials of what we discussed were these:

1. Divine Command Theory - The notion that God commands what is moral and what is immoral.
2. Natural Law Theory - Basically that there are an underlying set of moral codes which exist independently of God and any other being. Also, that anything with a purpose is moral.
3. The problem with Divine Command Theory is that there are those who put no faith in a higher power and still have moral and ethical values suggesting that their morality is independent of a divine order. There is also the question, "Is it moral because God commands it, or is it commanded by God because it is moral?"
4. The problem with Natural Law Theory is that we can't be certain of the purpose of anything. There is also a disjunction between what is and what ought to be. Just because it is purposeful does not make it moral.

What I'm saying is that as far as the study of modern ethics is concerned, no one has found a suitable hypothesis for what Moral Law really is or where it came from. Divine Command Theory and Natural Law Theory come pretty close to getting at the heart of the argument. I hope this creates some more discussion on the matter. I quite enjoy philosophy.

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