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Darwinbird

jvthc man...

im saving that post on my computer... for no reason. Its just like that crazy of a post that it just deserves to be saved on my computer for no reason.

Impressive.

__________________
"Sapere Aude"
Confucius say: "Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones own ignorance."

 

chronictruth

Great post but I think an area that was never touched on was 'the meaning of this creation by God or whoever.' Sure there are infinite possibilities since the universe is so expansive. But why? Why are we here? I am talking about stepping outside of the daily routines like work. Why are any of us here, (any organisms or planets or anything)? This is what continues to confuse me. Our lives seem so useless in the entire scheme of things. Here today gone tommorrow yet it seems none of what we can do can change the future as far as our universe goes. I would like to hear some of your ideas. Thanks.

zoltron

Each 1 of us probably has our own minute way of helping to change the wrong to right...we just don't get to see what we've done spiritually, but God sees. If we at least tried to change the wrong that we encounter, God realizes that we put forth the effort, instead of 1 of those saying, "Ah this world blows! Nothin' we can do to change this." God knows, I'm sure, when you do simple things, like good manners, politeness, & being all-around decent peeps.

chronictruth

The more I think about it, it seems the more confused I become. Thinking about something so vague makes me feel awkward. I have never believed in the after life. I also do not believe in judgement day where you have to face up to everything you did in your life. Sure, religion gives us direction and prevents people from doing stupid things but I don't believe any of it. It was all created to relieve that inner emptiness we all have. It seems people who wrong others have more of this emptiness and are more lost than others because they feel they have created a larger void since they no longer connect as well to humanity. I have always thought that when you die you just turn to nothingness. Life as we know it is quite boring to me. Most seem to 'accept' their existence rather than question it. Sure life has a lot of distractions but if more people did some soul searching I am sure the world we live in would not be so messed up. Almost everything certain people do is based on religion. Almost all wars are based on religion. It is such a petty thing to fight over as killing people isn't going to make you 'more muslim' 'more christian'or whatever religion you are. Like I said before some people say religion creates more order in the world but I would beg to differ as religion is a big reason why people are killed. It is a trade off because you always have religious fanatics. People who are overly religous bother me. Sure life has it's ups and downs. Right now I am in a 'down' stretch in my life where things arent working out too well but I have never felt the urge to start become more religious. Some claim that good and bad happen for a reason and that things arent random in this universe. Things are random and good things and bad things can happen for no reason at all. Just because you get a raise at work doesnt mean it was 'all in the heavens and God wanted it this way.' It is amazing how petty even religious people are. If there was a God I doubt he would spiral your life into the good and bad based on your performance at work or how hard you studied. A God would look at the bigger picture and understand the inherent human condition.

jvthc

To those that responded to my previous post here (some time ago), thanks for reading and thinking.

I'm responding to chronictruth here (in a moment), but I've re-read my post (noticed several spelling and grammer errors, the result of rushing - please forgive my haste), and I hope everyone understands I'm condensing about 600 pages of thought into an online post, in a colloquial "fireside chat" rather than a treatise.

Here, too, I'm tipsy and not taking much care on spelling or grammer once again!

chronictruth: An interesting question, "why", isn't it?

To suggest there "must" be a reason for existance implies there must be a God. In the reverse, if there IS reason, WHO has that reason.

Perhaps, instead, we insist on a reason because of our intellect. If you or I held the view that there is no God, then there is no need for a reason. The random quantum fluctuations that brought us about by chance would have no reason.

On the other hand, some religious doctrines do suggest a reason. Perhaps in shorthand, the Bible states (in extreme oversimplified terms) that God simply decided it was good. With extended extrapolation one might assume it is to create crops of potential angels with which to populate heaven, yet another creation separated from this one.

I realize those seem trite and even insulting to serious Jews and Christians, but my thinking is not along the lines of religious belief, and therefore dares to look into an infinate and chaotic reality that is, as a religious mind might be able to accept, a logical excersize.

Insisting that there must be an answer to "why" - perhaps better stated as a reason for creation - implies either that someone owns it, or has an interest in creating it, or we must accept that a reason is only important to us, because of our "Id" and "Ego." If, for example, our sufferage were at the whim of a role of the dice, or worse, the sub-microscopic vibrations of strings of raw energy, we would find ourselves so significantly insulted we simply can't accept such an answer.

Then, too, outside the scope of religion, our life hinges on the cooperative function of millions of chemicals, hormones, electrical impulses and loosely connected, translucent tissues of GOO, mixed with, of all horrors, millions of foreign and alien looking microbes that aren't of our own genetic origin (meaning we have company within our bodies), some of which are friendly, and many which are not - it's no wonder that "randomness" is simply a part of what we are.

To "insist" that there must be a reason even assumes we are the central focal point of creation. What reason is there to assume that there must be a reason for reality, if we were suddently to accept we don't matter to anything outside ourselves? Accept, of course, that we matter to each other.

Rest on that thought a moment. It's the subject of the movie "Contact." It's also a sort of "relativity" to the concept of "reason." No particle, no matter how complex (that is intelligent-being Vs non-intelligent rock) is any more or less important than another, accept as we affect that relative importance by recognizing each other.

There might be the only meaningful reason after all.

Each other.

If indeed, as I suspect, there is a single, underlying reality - a unified field once posited by physics - perhaps we are each other underneath the technical facts.

Perhaps that's God getting to know himself through each of us.

Please don't think I pretend to know. These thoughts, like the foundations of physics, trail into assumptions that fade from fact into belief with no more certainty than the religon many of us question. Physics does bring us close to the language of reality, and perhaps closer to a reason - but that reason may have little to do with us, except as it gives rise to how we view each other.

Ok- no more beer for me.

'Night

__________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge - Sounds like BS, until you realize Einstein said that.

 

Heinz

This is just my thought about why we are here, and the beginning of time.

EDIT: After re-reading my post, I see myself jumping from subject to subject. I can't seem to think about the same stuff for too long before I get another idea I have to talk about. Sorry...

Let me first state that I have not come to any conclusions as to why we are here or how it all started, but I might have a reason for this.


Take, for example, a mouse in a maze. No matter how long you leave the mouse in there, it will not figure its way out, ever!(maybe by accident, but that wouldn't count). The reason is because a mouse's brain isn't "wired", if you will, in a way that it can comprehend the maze, and get out. Their though process doesn't work in a way that they will figure out the maze.

What if our human brains were not "wired" in a way that our thought process could formulate an answer as to why were are here, or how we got here. No matter how much thinking we do, we just wont be able to figure it out.


As for the issue of religion, souls, afterlife, I am a very scientific person, and logically, I cannot allow myself to believe in an all-powerful god, or spirits, or souls, or afterlife, because it simply does not any explanation. And I don't like the whole thing of "You don't have to have an explanation, all you have to do is beleive" I somehow feel that this kind of thinking is somewhat naive. But thats just me.


I see nothing special about the human race, I can't see why we think we are so special. We are just like all other animals, except we can talk, therefore we think we are the all powerful and great species of everything, when we are not. So I guess when we die, we will simply "turn off". Because our brain waves(thoughs, emotions, personality, hate, love, etc) stop functioning.


Everything that we are, all our thoughs, hates, quirks, ideas, ideals, emotions, etc, are all results of us experiencing things in our past. This is what I think makes our "personality".


Anyways, these are all just thoughs of mine, im not imposing anything. Beleive in what you want, doesn't bother me at all.

zoltron

Yessirree, Bob, us humans can definitely talk...no doubt about it. [j/k man]

Heinz

Ah you guys know what I mean. Basically, because we can communicate our thoughts and ideas, we tend to forget the fact that other animals also have thoughts and such. Thus giving us that feeling of supreme superiority. And which leads to our need for explanations, usually involving a more meaningful reason for being.

Calico

Why is it so hard to believe in God? I'm not insulting anybody's opinions, go ahead and have them. But there's a book that tells you the meaning of life, that tells you what's going to happen, and tells you everything you're asking yourself.

It's in the bible.

__________________
'Stay around trees like christmas gifts..

Heinz

True, there is a book that states the meaning of life and whatnot. But that is a 2000 year old book.

Why aren't we still using the old DOS operatiing system? Because it is obsolete. And so is the Bible. Back when it was written, it was most likely very useful, but not nowadays.


Its just all way too farfetched for me.

Now don't get me wrong, im not a closed-minded person. I've though about this for a very long time, I went to church, and sunday school, but I simply can't see how there would be an all powerful god, one God. There are too many religions and too many gods. Personally, I think that religion was created to give answers to phenomenae that were inexplicable. But today, we have answers to all these things, so religions is in a way obsolete.


Now, this is just a personal thought. If you think differently than I do, thats alright with me, I respect your thoughts. And I hope you'll respect mine.