Marijuana.com

solutions · 09-02-2004, 05:21 PM

M.Moore controversial? Phuh!

Refugee who became Dutch MP defies Islam with film about Koran
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels Telegraph (31/08/2004)

Opening shot ; Hirsi Ali

After describing the Prophet Mohammed as a pervert, Ayaan Hirsi Ali already needs round-the-clock protection from the Dutch security services.

Now the Muslim apostate and rising star of Dutch politics has pushed her luck even further with a film exhibiting verses of the Koran across the chest, stomach and thighs of an almost naked girl. [solutions: sure, there were titties, but it was an awfully big pair of underwear though, I actually expected something more graphic, a close up of a sewn up vagina or something, that's the kind of thing she's talking about here]

Mrs Hirsi Ali, who has risen from Somali asylum seeker to Dutch MP in 12 years, produced the film broadcast on Dutch television on Sunday night to highlight the continued oppression of Muslim women in Europe.

The 11-minute programme, Submission, depicts a young Muslim girl confronting Allah at prayer in a mosque. She wears the veil, covering most of the face, but her voluptuous body is clearly visible through a transparent gown.

"All praise to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds," begins the text painted across the actress's throat, which then scrolls down her bare chest. It is taken from the fatiha or opening of the Koran, the lines recited aloud by men, and silently by women, at Muslim prayer five times a day throughout the world.

Four other women act out scenes of torment and repression. One battered victim in a torn dress, exposes her shoulders and arms covered with lash wounds and the text of Verse 34, Chapter 4, The Women.

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made them excel and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient. Those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them," it says.

The broadcast was watched by 750,000 people, a large audience in a country of 16 million. An estimated one million are Muslims of Turkish or North African origin.

Mrs Hirsi Ali, 34, an MP for the free-market Liberals, has emerged as the unlikely heir of Pim Fortuyn, the homosexual firebrand who launched a mass movement to defend Holland's easy-going way of life against radical imams.

While shunning his party, she has pursued his message, denouncing the country's 30-year experiment with multiculturalism - including 700 Islamic clubs funded by the taxpayer - as a disastrous error born of "misplaced guilt".

Low-level fatwas - or death edicts - have been raining down since she attacked Islam as a medieval, misogynist cult incapable of self-criticism and blind to modern science.

Mrs Hirsi Ali said she chose the naked body formula to open up the opaque world of Islam and show that there is a human being behind the veil.

Steven Huismans, the director of Holland's Institute for Multicultural Development, said: "What she is doing is really provocative." Nabil Marouch, the head of the Dutch wing of the Arabic European League, said: "If the public keeps listening to Ayaan Hirsi, it will do great damage to integration."

But Mrs Hirsi Ali has become immensely popular among the ordinary Dutch, people who have been shocked by the sudden emergence of large Muslim enclaves in their cities - often with ties to militant anti-western groups. A parliamentary report this year found that more than 70 per cent of Dutch-born Muslims were bringing in spouses from their home countries, perpetuating a separatist sub-culture.

Mrs Hirsi Ali arrived in Holland as a penniless refugee in 1992 after sneaking across the German border to escape a forced marriage to a Somali kinsman. She did not speak a word of Dutch. Finding jobs as a cleaner, she went on to study political science at Leiden University.

Her ambition now is nothing less than a reformation of Islam.

MickityMike · 09-03-2004, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solutions

Her ambition now is nothing less than a reformation of Islam.

Good for her. She's either incredibly brave, or astoundingly stupid.

solutions · 09-04-2004, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickityMike

Good for her. She's either incredibly brave, or astoundingly stupid.

brave; warrior princess

under 24/7 intelligence service guard. Relocated this week when the address of her residence appeared on an Allah akbar website

News on her film made Radio Farda too, Persian Radio Free Europe with millions of listeners in Iran.

I love the American Dream part about her story and how she combines it with good old Dutch anti-fundamentalism and theo-scepticism, while pointing out the true spirit of Liberalism leaving a (mostly) pack of men in grey speechless in the benches, explaining how she sometimes "lacks the nuances" in Dutch when she pisses people off.

Not to mention her briljant switch from the social democrats to the (free market) liberals. She was "brought in" by Neelie Kroes who now serves as EC for competition.

BBC audio link: "I am not going to allow people to intimidate me"

Herb Ninja · 09-05-2004, 03:05 AM

I support transparent gowns. If for nothing else, she should at least be admired for promoting that.

Peace, HN-

solutions · 09-09-2004, 11:10 AM

From Time magazine:

Written on Their Skin

By ABI DARUVALLA | AMSTERDAM | Sunday, Sep. 05, 2004

There are believers who try to change Islam from within. And then there are apostate reformers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. After fleeing from Somalia to the Netherlands in 1991 to escape an arranged marriage, she renounced Islam, calling it "an extremely backward religion." In 2003 she became an M.P. for the liberal VVD party and published The Son Factory, a book decrying the oppression of Muslim women. She followed up with a sequel, The Virgin Cage, last week. As her latest provocation, she has written and narrated a film called Submission, which relates stories of domestic violence, and displays passages from the Koran painted onto the naked flesh of actresses. Shown on Dutch TV last week, Submission drew praise and outrage — including a death threat that drove Hirsi Ali into hiding. The film "is worthless and the nudity unnecessary," says Canan Ujar, spokeswoman for the Women's Federation division of Milli Görüs, the largest Muslim organization in the Netherlands. "Emancipation has to come from within the Muslim community, and we are already working on this." Fadoua Bouali, a Moroccan-born nurse in Amsterdam, disagrees. "The conversations the women [in the film] have with God touched me enormously because they represent real prayers," she says.

In the film, Hirsi Ali recites the fictional monologues of four women praying to God: one has been whipped for having an illicit love affair; another faces an arranged marriage; a third was beaten by her husband; and the last is pregnant after being raped by an uncle. As Hirsi Ali relates these stories, the camera pans over the women's bodies, visible through the transparent chadors they wear. Hirsi Ali says the women are nude because she wanted to show the "naked truth" about domestic violence while also revealing "the beauty of Islam. It's not an ugly culture, but it is interlaced with cruelty."

"I accept some people are offended" by Submission, Hirsi Ali says. "That's legitimate. But in a democracy, it's not legitimate to intimidate and threaten someone for expressing their views." Reformers both inside and outside Islam can agree with that.

From the Sep. 13, 2004 issue of TIME Europe magazine

MickityMike · 09-10-2004, 03:53 AM

Damn, we really need more Muslims like this incredible woman.

solutions · 11-02-2004, 10:58 AM

23-7-1957 | 2-11-2004

Rest in peace Theo. A greater martyr for free speach has never lived.

Suddenly the US election seems irrelevant. The country is shocked by the murder of Theo van Gogh, cineast, director of "Submission" and outspoken columnist. The great-great-grandson of painter Vincent's brother was stabbed and shot several times, repotedly a pamphlet with Islamic text was knifed into his chest, another report says his throat was cut. Within 3 hours Queen Beatrix and PM Balkenende expressed their horror. Crap is being posted on websites "hail to the martyr ... zionists and their cronies will meet their bloody end like this" (marokko.nl -now offline) vs "time for revenge, filthy-leftist, islamic sheepf**kers" etc (volkomenkut.com). It turns out the suspect is a 26 year old with Maroccan and Dutch nationality. There will be a remebrance gathering at Damsquare tonight, we'll see how that turns out. Coincidence or not, today is 911 days since the Pim Fortuyn murder.

Reuters:

Quote:

Controversial Dutch Filmmaker Shot Dead
Tue Nov 2, 2004 04:52 AM ET

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Controversial Dutch filmmaker and newspaper columnist Theo van Gogh, who made a film about violence against women in Islamic societies, was murdered in Amsterdam on Tuesday morning, police said.

Amsterdam police said Van Gogh had been stabbed and shot in the center of the city. Van Gogh's short feature film "Submission" angered some Dutch Muslims for its portrayal of a Muslim woman who is abused by her husband.

Police said they arrested a man at the scene after an exchange of gunfire in which the suspect wounded a police officer. The suspect was wounded in his leg.

Some Dutch media said Van Gogh had been planning to make a film about anti-immigration populist Pim Fortuyn, who was gunned down by an animal rights activist in May 2002, days before his grass-roots party stormed to second place in a general election. [he did make the film, in cinema's next month]

Van Gogh received death threats after "Submission" was broadcast earlier this year. He made the film with Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who won Dutch citizenship after fleeing an arranged marriage 12 years ago.

She has been under police protection after receiving death threats following the airing of the film on Dutch national television.

Pictures

MickityMike · 11-03-2004, 12:11 AM

Crap.

I read about this today, too, solutions.

solutions · 11-03-2004, 07:42 PM

Yeah that sucked big time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickityMike

Damn, we really need more Muslims like this incredible woman.

I bet you noticed this one:

Quote:

Outside View: Challenging Islam is risky

By Irshad Manji

Outside View commentator
Published 11/2/2004 4:36 PM

TORONTO, Nov. 2 (UPI) -- Tuesday's slaying of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who criticized Islamic practices, reminds all of a nagging truth: More than 15 years after the government of Iran issued a death warrant against novelist Salman Rushdie, challenging Muslims remains a risky business.

As a Muslim dissident, I speak from experience. My book, "The Trouble with Islam," has put me on the receiving end of anger, hatred and vitriol. That's because I'm asking questions that we Muslims can no longer hide from. Why, for example, are we squandering the talents of half of God's creation, women? What's with the stubborn streak of anti-Semitism in Islam today? Above all, how can even moderate Muslims view the Koran literally when it, like every holy text, abounds in contradictions and ambiguity? The trouble with Islam today is that literalism is going mainstream.

Muslims who take offense at these points often wind up reinforcing them in their responses to me. I regularly get death threats through my Web site. Some of my would-be assassins emphasize the virtues of martyrdom, wanting to hurl me into the "flames of hell" in exchange for 72 virgins. Others simply want to know what plane I'm next boarding, so they can hijack it. Somehow, I don't feel the urge to share my schedule.

A few threats have been up-close and personal. At an airport in North America, a Muslim man approached my traveling companion to say, "You're luckier than your friend." When she asked him to explain, he turned his hand into the shape of a gun and pulled the trigger. "She will find out later what that means," he intoned.

But, for all of the threats, there's good news: I'm hearing more support, affection and even love from fellow Muslims than I thought possible. Two groups in particular -- young Muslims and Muslim women -- have flooded my Web site with letters of relief and thanks. They are relieved that somebody is saying out loud words they have only whispered, and grateful that they're being given the permission to think for themselves.

That's why I don't take my bodyguard everywhere I go. It may be necessary to have one when I visit France next week. But in my day-to-day life, I refuse to be closely protected. If I'm going to have credibility conveying to Muslims that we can, indeed, live while dissenting with the establishment, I can't have a big, burly fellow looking over my shoulder. I must lead by example. So far, so good.

To be sure, I haven't tried visiting Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan since the release of my book. (One challenge at time, please!) Still, the relative safety with which I've debated Islam in the West -- from Britain to Belgium, from Australia to Canada, from the Netherlands to the United States -- convinces me that Muslims in the West have a sterling opportunity. They are best poised to revive Islam's tradition of independent reasoning. Why in the West? Because it's here that we already enjoy the precious freedoms to think, express, challenge and be challenged -- all without fear of state reprisal.

I'm not denying that some Muslims have been targeted for harassment, profiling and discrimination by Western governments. I faced the same during the 1991 Gulf War when I was marched out of a federal building in Ottawa, Canada for no apparent reason. However, none of this negates a basic fact: If Muslims in the West dare to ask questions about our holy book, and if we care to denounce human rights violations being committed under the banner of that book, we need not worry about being raped, flogged, stoned or executed by the state for doing so. What in God's name are Muslims in the West doing with our freedoms?

I know what many young Muslim would like us to be doing -- thinking critically about ourselves and not solely about Washington. Indeed, a huge motivation for having written my book came from young Muslims on American and Canadian campuses. Even before 9/11, I spoke at universities about the virtues of diversity, including diversity of opinion. After many of these speeches, young Muslims emerged from the audiences, gathered at the side of stage, chatted excitedly among themselves, and then walked over to me.

"Irshad," I would hear, "we need voices such as yours to help us open up this religion of our because if it doesn't open up, we're leaving it."

They're on the front lines in the battle for the soul of Islam. Whatever the risks to my own safety, I won't turn my back on them -- or on the gift of freedom bestowed by my society.

--

(Irshad Manji is author of "The Trouble with Islam: A Muslim's Call for Reform in Her Faith." She can be contacted through her Web site, www.muslim-refusenik.com.)

Stephanie S. · 11-03-2004, 10:09 PM

I read about this film awhile back. Tried to find it to no avail. I just watched a broadcast in Dutch here
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?fusea...ortage_id=2830

And I thought Hebrew was hard...I'll have to give Dutch a try when I finish with Hebrew.

This woman is brave and has probably put herself in great danger. She's under police protection, no? The murder of Theo van Gogh is telling. It's a glaring example of the anger and violence harbored in the hearts of some people.

What's going on in Holland? What is the climate like with regard to Muslims?

peace

09-02-2004, 05:21 PM	#1
solutions Seasoned Activist Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 981 Grams: 2,834.85 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Refugee who became Dutch MP defies Islam with film about Koran M.Moore controversial? Phuh! Refugee who became Dutch MP defies Islam with film about Koran By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels Telegraph (31/08/2004) Opening shot ; Hirsi Ali After describing the Prophet Mohammed as a pervert, Ayaan Hirsi Ali already needs round-the-clock protection from the Dutch security services. Now the Muslim apostate and rising star of Dutch politics has pushed her luck even further with a film exhibiting verses of the Koran across the chest, stomach and thighs of an almost naked girl. [solutions: sure, there were titties, but it was an awfully big pair of underwear though, I actually expected something more graphic, a close up of a sewn up vagina or something, that's the kind of thing she's talking about here] Mrs Hirsi Ali, who has risen from Somali asylum seeker to Dutch MP in 12 years, produced the film broadcast on Dutch television on Sunday night to highlight the continued oppression of Muslim women in Europe. The 11-minute programme, Submission, depicts a young Muslim girl confronting Allah at prayer in a mosque. She wears the veil, covering most of the face, but her voluptuous body is clearly visible through a transparent gown. "All praise to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds," begins the text painted across the actress's throat, which then scrolls down her bare chest. It is taken from the fatiha or opening of the Koran, the lines recited aloud by men, and silently by women, at Muslim prayer five times a day throughout the world. Four other women act out scenes of torment and repression. One battered victim in a torn dress, exposes her shoulders and arms covered with lash wounds and the text of Verse 34, Chapter 4, The Women. "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made them excel and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient. Those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them," it says. The broadcast was watched by 750,000 people, a large audience in a country of 16 million. An estimated one million are Muslims of Turkish or North African origin. Mrs Hirsi Ali, 34, an MP for the free-market Liberals, has emerged as the unlikely heir of Pim Fortuyn, the homosexual firebrand who launched a mass movement to defend Holland's easy-going way of life against radical imams. While shunning his party, she has pursued his message, denouncing the country's 30-year experiment with multiculturalism - including 700 Islamic clubs funded by the taxpayer - as a disastrous error born of "misplaced guilt". Low-level fatwas - or death edicts - have been raining down since she attacked Islam as a medieval, misogynist cult incapable of self-criticism and blind to modern science. Mrs Hirsi Ali said she chose the naked body formula to open up the opaque world of Islam and show that there is a human being behind the veil. Steven Huismans, the director of Holland's Institute for Multicultural Development, said: "What she is doing is really provocative." Nabil Marouch, the head of the Dutch wing of the Arabic European League, said: "If the public keeps listening to Ayaan Hirsi, it will do great damage to integration." But Mrs Hirsi Ali has become immensely popular among the ordinary Dutch, people who have been shocked by the sudden emergence of large Muslim enclaves in their cities - often with ties to militant anti-western groups. A parliamentary report this year found that more than 70 per cent of Dutch-born Muslims were bringing in spouses from their home countries, perpetuating a separatist sub-culture. Mrs Hirsi Ali arrived in Holland as a penniless refugee in 1992 after sneaking across the German border to escape a forced marriage to a Somali kinsman. She did not speak a word of Dutch. Finding jobs as a cleaner, she went on to study political science at Leiden University. Her ambition now is nothing less than a reformation of Islam. __________________ 3 monkeys sitting under a coconut tree discussing things as they are set to be Said one to the other, now listen you two there's a strange rumor that can't be true they say man was descended from our noble race but the very idea is a big disgrace no monkey ever deserted his wife or her baby to ruin their lives. Damian Marley - Educated Fools

09-05-2004, 03:05 AM	#4
Herb Ninja Seasoned Activist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 4,440 Grams: 3,353.05 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I support transparent gowns. If for nothing else, she should at least be admired for promoting that. Peace, HN- __________________ "Truth is treason in an empire of lies." -Ron Paul

11-03-2004, 10:09 PM	#10
Stephanie S. Original Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 1,433 Grams: 3,187.00 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I read about this film awhile back. Tried to find it to no avail. I just watched a broadcast in Dutch here http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?fusea...ortage_id=2830 And I thought Hebrew was hard...I'll have to give Dutch a try when I finish with Hebrew. This woman is brave and has probably put herself in great danger. She's under police protection, no? The murder of Theo van Gogh is telling. It's a glaring example of the anger and violence harbored in the hearts of some people. What's going on in Holland? What is the climate like with regard to Muslims? peace __________________ "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate View Forum Leaders Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read

Remove Advertisements Marijuana.com Sponsor
Marijuana.com Advertisement	<a rel='nofollow' href='http://adserver.marijuana.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a78e9dba&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://adserver.marijuana.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=6&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE&n=a78e9dba' border='0' alt='' /></a>

09-09-2004, 11:10 AM	#5
solutions Seasoned Activist Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 981 Grams: 2,834.85 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	From Time magazine: Written on Their Skin By ABI DARUVALLA \| AMSTERDAM \| Sunday, Sep. 05, 2004 There are believers who try to change Islam from within. And then there are apostate reformers like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. After fleeing from Somalia to the Netherlands in 1991 to escape an arranged marriage, she renounced Islam, calling it "an extremely backward religion." In 2003 she became an M.P. for the liberal VVD party and published The Son Factory, a book decrying the oppression of Muslim women. She followed up with a sequel, The Virgin Cage, last week. As her latest provocation, she has written and narrated a film called Submission, which relates stories of domestic violence, and displays passages from the Koran painted onto the naked flesh of actresses. Shown on Dutch TV last week, Submission drew praise and outrage — including a death threat that drove Hirsi Ali into hiding. The film "is worthless and the nudity unnecessary," says Canan Ujar, spokeswoman for the Women's Federation division of Milli Görüs, the largest Muslim organization in the Netherlands. "Emancipation has to come from within the Muslim community, and we are already working on this." Fadoua Bouali, a Moroccan-born nurse in Amsterdam, disagrees. "The conversations the women [in the film] have with God touched me enormously because they represent real prayers," she says. In the film, Hirsi Ali recites the fictional monologues of four women praying to God: one has been whipped for having an illicit love affair; another faces an arranged marriage; a third was beaten by her husband; and the last is pregnant after being raped by an uncle. As Hirsi Ali relates these stories, the camera pans over the women's bodies, visible through the transparent chadors they wear. Hirsi Ali says the women are nude because she wanted to show the "naked truth" about domestic violence while also revealing "the beauty of Islam. It's not an ugly culture, but it is interlaced with cruelty." "I accept some people are offended" by Submission, Hirsi Ali says. "That's legitimate. But in a democracy, it's not legitimate to intimidate and threaten someone for expressing their views." Reformers both inside and outside Islam can agree with that. From the Sep. 13, 2004 issue of TIME Europe magazine

09-10-2004, 03:53 AM	#6
MickityMike Orwellian Jackboot™ Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,689 Grams: 2,950.15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Damn, we really need more Muslims like this incredible woman.

11-03-2004, 12:11 AM	#8
MickityMike Orwellian Jackboot™ Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,689 Grams: 2,950.15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Crap. I read about this today, too, solutions.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Marijuana.com

Hot Products: