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MickityMike

The way you justify your prejudiced view, Steph, is to point out Republicans who are assholes? You're still providing the same type and amount of evidence that I can provide for the assumptions I gave you. S2's post is just the beginning. There are also plenty of examples of Democrats (and Republicans) pandering to homophobia in recent years as well.

How does one convince another that one's dislike for a specific group of people is based upon untruths, demonizations and unadulterated bigotry?

I find it interesting that a self-proclaimed “progressive” uses the same methods to excuse her illogical views as racists and homophobes. How is that "forward-thinking?"

__________________
I'd be delighted to live in a country where happily married gay couples had closets full of assault weapons. - Glenn Reynolds

 

Higher Logic

Who is the left? Kerry surely isn't the left. I'm a little sick and tired of hearing about how the left lost, when we really never had a candidate in the first place. Regarding this "left" issue and not being mainstream, if you buy into the hype and spin of the Bush administration, then you probably do think people who support Kerry are left-leaners. This couldn't be further from the truth.

Both Bush and Kerry lean to the right, as the following chart demonstrates:



So when I hear people bitch about how Kerry suppoters are so liberal, I tend to laugh, because even Kerry's policies and his stance on issues are no where near the true liberal sense of the word.

Privatize social security, spend more on education, legalize drugs and prostitution, get rid of "corporate welfare," reform programs like DARE and actually tell the truth, preach real sex education, not abstinence (a religious ideology). There are many issues that the "supposed Left-leaning Kerry" doesn't fit at all, and that's what really bothers me about this, everyone claiming the left is lost, and this and that.

Since when is Kerry the left, I ask?

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No kidding HL!

Sadly the left has been dead in the U.S. since the start of the first "Red Scare" in the begining of the twentith century. Since that point in time the U.S public have almost always voted leaning to the right. The only real exceptions were FDR but even some of his policys can be consitered right-wing (a.k.a his use of the Millitary-Industral complex to put an end the "Great Depression" instead of working more on Social projects when WWII was approching (and yes I know that without that complex WWII would have lasted alot longer, but it was a right leaning foreign policy), JFK (who himself had leaned alittle to the right in terms of foreign policy), and Clinton (but he again did lean alittle to the right in some policies).

When people say that this is a major injury to the left, it's a lie. Sure it is a blow to the left but it's not a death blow. The same people on the left end of the spectrum, myself included, will remain and it will only be a matter of time for us to rise again.

Soon my fellow left-wingers, soon, we will be back in charge as the people realize how royal screwed they will be when the neo-cons get their way these next four years. If anything good comes out of this re-election it's that if Bush screws up seriously one more time he will have killed all of the Neo-con momentum and us in the Left will have our chance to fix this country.

Of course until then I will be moving to Canada!

__________________
Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Nietzsche

Herb Ninja

No offense Higher Logic but that chart is messed up. What is left and what is right? Michael Badnarik is "right" but less on the libertarian scale then the "left" Ralph Nader. Why?? And if Badnarik is on the right, then what is the right? Is the chart not trying to say that Badnarik is less libertarian then those on the left? Personally I think Badnarik is the most libertarian out of all those candidates, and he isn't on the side of Bush or Kerry. Peace, HN-

__________________
"Truth is treason in an empire of lies." -Ron Paul

MickityMike

I think it's just laziness. Referring to one as being on the "Left" and the other on the "Right" is just easier than explaining every time the myriad intricacies of political systems. But yeah, I don't really agree with your chart.

Herb, there are left- and right-libertarians when using this type of political model. "Authoritarian" essentially means the government controlling more of people's private lives, and the "Left" category refers to government tendency to control national economies. The other two categories are the polar opposites of the former.

 

Herb Ninja

Then "Right" refers to the government tendency not to control the national economy? Peace, HN-

MickityMike

Fo' shizzle.

---------------------------------------------

Also, I should point out in regards to the debate on why Bush won this election (ya know, just in case anyone gives a crap about this particular argument anymore ), that 23% of gays, 25% of Jews, and 45% of Hispanics voted for Bush.

But surely, they too are no doubt part of the stereotypical Ugly Racist Republican. Eh, Steph?

Edited to add: Oh, one more thing: In 2000, 29% of people who did not attend religious service voted for Bush. In 2004, 36% did.

Stephanie S.

This is the Conservative Right. Perhaps I should have used that term rather than Republican. They seem interchangeable these days. I don't know alot of "liberals" who are racist or homophobic.


O' Reilly
freerepublic.com

"But tonight, many conservatives on Capitol Hill are shocked by a racially insensitive comment that was made by the most powerful figure in cable news — Bill O’Reilly. Lloyd Grove reported this column in his column “The Reliable Source,” which appears in “The Washington Post,” and talked to Joe. LAST SATURDAY, Fox’s Bill O’Reilly was emceeing a benefit for disadvantaged school children in Washington, D.C., something that he should be commended for. But apparently O’Reilly found himself filling time before an African-American boy’s group named “The Best Men” were to come on stage. And he said this to the entire audience, quote, “Does anyone know where The Best Men are? I hope they’re not in the parking lot stealing our hubcaps.”

During a segment (2/9/00) about black athletes suing over the minimum academic standards for college admission, O'Reilly commented: "Look, you know as well as I do most of these kids come out and they can't speak English."

In support of his proposal to militarize U.S. borders, O'Reilly remarked, "We'd save lives because Mexican wetbacks, whatever you want to call them, the coyotes--they're not going to do what they're doing now, all right, so people aren't going to die in the desert." 2-6-03

If you can stomach it, watch O'Reilly..his homophobia is blatantly obvious. Maybe not racist, just a bigot?

Limbaugh
"The reason 94% of the black population is never going to vote for Bush or a Republican no matter what that Republican does is that they've chosen a way of life where Democrats are the masters and they're on their plantation."
RushLimbaugh.com

In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X: "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."

As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"


PS
Where'd you get the stats on Jews, Hispanics and Gays voting for Bush? I find that very hard to believe.

__________________
"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)

MickityMike

Uh, you're still using the same tact while not actually answering the charge of prejudice? Still trying to justify your bigoted views? That's a shame. It really is.

Maybe I'll provide some quotes and stats to "prove" the bigoted assumptions I made earlier about black people. How can someone so seemingly "progressive" not see her own hypocrisy in this?

AndrewSullivan.com. He's the HIV-positive gay dude who just happens to also be pro-war and refers to himself as conservative. He's probably another one of your racist or bigoted Republicans. Ya know how "they" are.

I'm gonna pop that bubble of yours if it's the last thing I do...

Stephanie S.

Nope, no bubble to pop. Maybe I am a bigot. Let's look at the definition.

big·ot n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


Well, I guess I am strongly partial to my views. I don't have a group or race whose ideals I strongly adhere to aside from Judaism, but my political views aren't really associated with my religion. My Rabbi voted for Bush. He was one of the 3% of Jews in the flawed exit polls that made up the 25% that voted for Bush.

Many of my views are liberal, some are conservative. I don't claim to be a "liberal" I claim to think in terms of humanity. If my consideration of all humans as deserving of the same rights and my lack of tolerance for those who wish to perpetuate prejudice against certain groups makes me a bigot, I guess I am. My intention isn't to perpetuate prejudice against conservatives. My intention is to let the truth be known.

When I see or hear others using racial slurs, suggesting that a persons sexuality makes them less entitled to benefits this country affords everyone else I am incensed. I know several gay couples who hold advanced degrees, principals in schools, engineers and the like who have been in committed relationships for longer than most straight couples I know. They are human. They are law abiding, not even pot smoking, positive people with children who deserve the same as anyone else.

Yeah, I'm a bigot all right. That's what most people call me that know me. Stephanie the Bigot.

Did I answer your charge of Prejudice, Mike? If not, Clarify your question and I'll try again. Can you please explain all of the prejudice statements made by members of the party you claim? The very few samples S2 provided were dated and far between. Can you explain the current climate of bigotry on the right? I can only AssUme that you adhere to those philosophies, since you are so vocal in support of your party. Please, explain your prejudice, Mike.


peace