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goldberry

After it's been proven that Iraq didn't own WMD many people have decided that the main reason for war was not WMD but spreading democracy in the mideast.

If that's so then can those people please explain the following:

Bush 'very pleased' with Pakistan's Musharraf

Not only is Musharraf a dictator, but he's a dictator who seized power by overthrowing a democratically elected government.

Yea, this war is about liberating the mideast from dictators and spreading democracy, that's why we invite dictators who overthrow democracies to the oval office.

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"Is our children learning?" George W. Bush

 

HappyMan

The war is not about spreading democracy. It is about changing the Middle East by force. For 30 year that region has been be a blight on the world it is time for a change.

Musharraf is not a tyrant, nor has he ordered wars on his neighbors. He is about has benign as dictators come. Also, the U.S. openly opposed his coup and did not 'support' him until 9-11 when the need to remove the Taliban from Afghanistan required the U.S. to 'befriend' Musharraf out of pure pragmatic demands.

There seems to be reoccurring thinking here that believes that dictators exist because of U.S. support. These dictators, would not be in power unless the U.S. props them brings them to power or props them up.


Also, there continues to be the belief that the decision to act in some instances requires action in all instances. And the decisions not to act in some instances undermine the rational for action in other unrelated instances. This ignores the unique situations that exists in every country and projects a uniform model on the countries that do not have similar political or regional dynamics.

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goldberry

At least we agree on that.

I know many Pakistanis would disagree. Do you think it's safe for Pakistanis to call for his resignation?

I guess you can call him what you want, but what it boils down to is that Musharraf is responsible for transforming Pakistan from a democracy to a dictatorship. We love democracies and hate dictatorships, right?

Was this war about liberating the Iraqi people?

HappyMan

What is your point?

What does Pakistan have to do with Iraq?

goldberry

Thanks for asking .

The two most compelling arguments pro-war people could give me were that a) Iraq posed a threat to us because of their WMD and b) We're liberating Iraqis (hence "Operation Iraqi Freedom")

My point is that this war is not about the principle of liberating a people from a dictator because evidently we don't have that principle when it comes to Musharraf, nor is it about WMD. The war is about money.

 

HappyMan

I contend that every situation is unique. The U.S. can not reasonably go about ridding the world of every dictator. Nor can the U.S. pragamticaly ignore every nation that is governed by dicators. The harsh reality of international politics demands the U.S. work with nations and governments of questions.

and another question, how is this war about money?

goldberry

Of course not. But we can refrain from inviting them to the oval office and praising them, can't we?

HappyMan

Not if we need them to stop islamic radicals from taking over their countries and gaining control over a nuclear arsenel. The raw pratical need of keeping Pakistan fighting radical islam exludes the niceties of morality.

MickityMike

I don't think that this war is about spreading democracy, per se, but that is one potential side effect. If democracy is a vehicle which can bring about liberal reform, then great. If not, then a more pragmatic approach is called for – like befriending Pakistan.

But each situation is obviously different, too. Iraq's populace has no great love for the Islamists, and elections have and will again demonstrate that clearly.

__________________
I'd be delighted to live in a country where happily married gay couples had closets full of assault weapons. - Glenn Reynolds

Hiz Highness

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's the same sort of philosophy that had us sending Saddam the components he needed to make WMDs, and arming people like Osama Bin Ladin to fight the soviets.

Are we ever going to learn, or are we going to keep making these same mistakes?

-HH