Marijuana.com

MickityMike · 12-21-2004, 04:22 AM

Quote:

A Not So Wonderful Life
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: December 19, 2004

EXTERIOR BRIDGE OVER POTOMAC RIVER - NIGHT

CLOSE SHOT - Rummy is standing by the railing, staring morosely into the water. The snow is falling hard. Feeling a tap on his shoulder, he wheels around and wrestles an old man with wings into a headlock.

OLD MAN: Ouch! Tut, tut. When will you learn that force doesn't solve everything?

RUMMY: Who the dickens are you?

OLD MAN: Clarence, Angel First Class. I've been sent down to help you.

RUMMY, squinting: You're off your nut, you old fruitcake. You can't help me. I was a matinee idol in this town, a studmuffin. Now everyone's turned on me - Trent Lott, Chuck Hagel and that dadburn McCain.

CLARENCE: No more self-pity, son. I'm going to show you what the world would have been like if you'd never been born.

Clarence, who can fly now, takes Rummy's hand and they soar over the icy Potomac to the Pentagon. Beneath the glass on the desk of the defense secretary is a list of members of Congress and their phone numbers.

RUMMY: Who put that there?

CLARENCE: Sam Nunn. He's the defense secretary. Sam consults with Congress. Never acts arrogant or misleads them. He didn't banish the generals who challenged him - he promoted 'em. And, of course, he caught Osama back in '01. He threw 100,000 troops into Afghanistan on 9/11 and sealed the borders. Our Special Forces trapped the evildoer and his top lieutenants at Tora Bora. You weren't at that cabinet meeting the day after 9/11, so nobody suggested going after Saddam. No American troops died or were maimed in Iraq. No American soldiers tortured Iraqis in Abu Ghraib. No Iraqi explosives fell into the hands of terrorists. There's no office of disinformation to twist perception abroad. We're not on the cusp of an Iraq run by Muslim clerics tied to Iran. Here's Sam. He's with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

GENERAL SHINSEKI: We got some good news today on the National Guard, sir. Recruiting is up 40 percent. With the money we saved killing that useless missile defense system, we up-armored all our Humvees.

RUMMY, fists and jaw clenched: Grrrrrrr...I want to see Wolfie!

CLARENCE: Sam never hired any of those wacko neocons. Wolfowitz is a woolly headed professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, and a consultant to Ariel Sharon. Richard Perle was never in charge of the Defense Policy Board, so he was unable to enrich himself through government connections, or help Ahmad Chalabi con the administration. Perle stayed an honest man, running a chain of soufflé shops. His soufflés were so fluffy he became known as the Prince of Lightness. Doug Feith never worked here, either, so he never set up the Office of Special Plans to spin tall tales about W.M.D. and Qaeda ties to Saddam. And he never bungled the occupation because there was no occupation. Without you to swoon over in a book, neocon doyenne Midge Decter became a fallen woman, like Violet.

RUMMY, dyspeptic: Holy mackerel! Take me to Dick!

CLARENCE: Dick and Lynne run a bait, tackle and baton-twirling shop in Casper, Wyo. You didn't exist, so you never gave him those jobs in the Nixon and Ford administrations, and he never ran for Congress or worked for Bush 41 or anointed himself 43's vice president. W. chose Chuck Hagel as his running mate. So without you and Dick there to dominate him, he was guided by his dad and Brent Scowcroft, who kept Condi in line. Colin Powell was never cut off at the knees and the U.N. and allies were never bullied. There was never any crazy fever about Iraq or unilateralism or "Old Europe." Here's Colin now, heading for the Oval Office.

POWELL: Merry Christmas, Mr. President. With the help of our allies around the world, we have won the war on terror. And Saddam has been overthrown. Once Hans Blix exposed the fact that Saddam had no weapons, the tyrant was a goner. No Arab dictator can afford to be humilated by a Swedish disarmament lawyer.

RUMMY: Goodness gracious, I've heard enough now. I'm going home. Unless you're going to tell me my wife is an old maid, because I wasn't around to marry her.

CLARENCE: Oh, no. Joyce lives across the street from your old house on Kalorama Road. She's happily married to the French ambassador.

"Auld Lang Syne" swells as we FADE OUT.

Number 2:

Quote:

Roth Plot II
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: December 20, 2004

Washington — In "The Plot Against America," the novelist Philip Roth imagined what might have befallen this nation if the appeasing Charles A. Lindbergh had defeated the anti-Hitler F.D.R. in the 1940 election.

Here's my idea for the sequel:

Opening scene in the Oval Office in winter 2001, after U.S. and allied forces crushed the Taliban in retaliation for their part in 9/11, with bin Laden not yet found in Afghanistan.

President Bush tells his national security aides he wants to continue to wage war against the web of terrorists, lest America be attacked again with nukes or germs.

The C.I.A.'s Tenet notes that Saddam's Iraq harbors the terrorists Nidal and al-Zarqawi. Adviser Rice adds that world intelligence services agree that Saddam seeks awful weapons. The Pentagon's Rumsfeld warns it is "only a matter of time" before Iraq shoots down one of our planes enforcing the no-flight zone protecting Iraq's Kurds from genocide.

State's Powell counsels relaxing U.N. pressure on Iraq by calling them "smart sanctions," hoping this will persuade Saddam to permit inspections. Bush glumly agrees.

Dissolve to a scene in a Tikrit palace where Saddam lays out his plan to (a) amass billions through a U.N. oil-for-food scam and his secret oil pipeline to Syria, (b) increase contacts with Al Qaeda, (c) take leadership of the Arab world by developing W.M.D. or pretending to have them already, and (d) openly challenging Bush.

Back in D.C., at a critical go-no-go meeting in the Situation Room, Bush sides with Powell not to invade Iraq. Wolfowitz enters with news of a shoot-down of our "Northern Watch" aircraft by Iraq. Kofi Annan, on CNN, asks: What do we expect - the U.S. flies over sovereign Iraqi territory. Bush decides against his aides' audacious regime-change proposal, and chooses a restrained, Clintonian pinprick response with cruise missiles.

Having gloriously faced down the U.S. - and gaining greater financial and weaponry strength every day - Saddam becomes an iconic, heroic figure in the Arab and Muslim world. Through massive kickbacks and smuggling operations involving France, Russia and China, the murderous despot ensures U.N. protection from inspections. Free from fear of retaliation, Saddam offers safe haven in Iraq to bin Laden and followers seeking a center of operations.

Cut to Libya, where Qaddafi has purchased nuclear know-how and fissionable material from corrupt Pakistani scientists. The Libyan dictator shifts his fear of the U.S. to fear and envy of Iraq, and presses ahead to produce a nuclear bomb of his own. Intermediate-range missiles being shipped to him from North Korea are seized at sea by Israel.

That Zionist entity is faced by a Hamas-dominated P.L.O. now heavily financed by Saddam. In 2003, he doubles his payments to the families of suicide bombers, ties the violent intifada tightly to Baghdad-based Qaeda, and sees to it that a Palestinian of his choice is ready to succeed Arafat.

The terrified royal families of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait demand that the U.S. and European nations station troops in their countries to act as a tripwire against Saddam's longtime lust for their oil and from bin Laden's vengeance. Bush, having rejected reforms to make our forces more mobile, is forced to decline. Europe, furious at the U.S. for failure to fulfill the leadership responsibilities of a superpower, passes. The U.N. resolves it is seized with concern.

OPEC, with Iraq's shrewd acquiescence, retaliates by doubling oil prices, its price-gouging supported by Russia's oil cartel, which triggers Western-world recession. Egypt, seeking protection from Saddam, merges with nuclear-armed Libya, and both embrace Islamism.

This disheartening train of events left the station, in my sequel to Roth's satire, with the fictional Bush's humiliating decision not to invade Iraq. But that's no proper ending for an optimistic, reconstructionist author.

In early 2004, a Wilsonian Democrat bursts upon the political scene. He wins the Iowa caucuses on the slogan "Send Our Boys Abroad," conducts a campaign inspiring us to extend freedom throughout the world, and routs the G.O.P.'s equivocating wimp in the White House. As president-elect, he emulates F.D.R. in wartime by appointing Republicans Rumsfeld to State and Wolfowitz to Defense, overthrows Saddam, wins the terror war - and the Plot Against America, Part II, is foiled.

My question to you all is a simple one: Is one more honest (or dishonest) than the other?

SaltWrench · 12-21-2004, 04:58 AM

I must say that I enjoyed the style of former more than the latter, but I still don't think that either can be taken as anything close to gospel. They both ignore the aspect that the other takes into account. One being more domestic issues, and the other more foreign influences.

And both ask us to assume alot. The intermediary steps are a little skimpy. But both are entertaining pieces of fiction.

MickityMike · 12-21-2004, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltWrench

They both ignore the aspect that the other takes into account.

[...]

And both ask us to assume alot. The intermediary steps are a little skimpy. . . .

Sure, but isn't that true, on a very basic level, of both the pro- and anti-war arguments in general? Either way, the question remains: Which is more honest?

SaltWrench · 12-21-2004, 07:10 AM

Even being anti-war, I will concede that the anti-war story overlooked more facts than the pro-war story. Thats not to say that I think that those are all there is to the pro/anti war agenda, but the pro-war story overlooked less.

MickityMike · 12-22-2004, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltWrench

Even being anti-war, I will concede that the anti-war story overlooked more facts than the pro-war story. Thats not to say that I think that those are all there is to the pro/anti war agenda, but the pro-war story overlooked less.

Do either of them make you wonder about possible elements of the war that you may not have previously thought of? Like some "what if" scenarios?

HappyMan · 12-22-2004, 02:35 AM

people seem to think that consenquences are only the result of action, not also of inaction.

MickityMike · 12-22-2004, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

people seem to think that consenquences are only the result of action, not also of inaction.

Yeah, that's pretty much my point in this entire exercise. What might the situation be today if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

HappyMan · 12-22-2004, 02:46 AM

We obviously would all be dancing around a maypole with cute and fuzzy bunnies in each hand.

Stephanie S. · 12-22-2004, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickityMike

What might the situation be today if we hadn't invaded Iraq?

Seriously, is that a rhetorical question or do you really want an answer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyMan

We obviously would all be dancing around a maypole with cute and fuzzy bunnies in each hand.

Yes, that's just what I always think.

Regarding those stories, I don't have much of an opinion. I liked the first one best, just because that is my ultimate fantasy regarding Rumsfeld.

Overall, I don't really form opinions based on that type of fiction. Too many "what if's".

peace

MickityMike · 12-22-2004, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanie S.

Seriously, is that a rhetorical question or do you really want an answer?

Nope, I'd actually like to hear an answer. What do you personally think the world would look like today if we had stopped after Afghanistan? I promise I'm not gonna jump all over anyone in this thread, I just honestly wonder what everyone thinks "woulda/coulda/shoulda been." Just give me a little bit of detail so it makes sense, that's all I ask.

Quote:

I liked the first one best, just because that is my ultimate fantasy regarding Rumsfeld.

Dude, lemme just tell you how much I don't wanna hear about your Ultimate Donald Rumsfeld Fantasy: 2004. ...

Quote:

Overall, I don't really form opinions based on that type of fiction. Too many "what if's".

Not asking you to, chica, I'd just like to hear some honest scenarios of what would most likely (in your own personal opinion) have happened sans Iraq. For example, what would the Europeans be doing/working on, what about Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia... any affect on the Israel-Palestine War?

Just in general, what sort of world do you think we'd be living in?

12-21-2004, 04:58 AM	#2
SaltWrench Jr. Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 35 Grams: 1,410.75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	I must say that I enjoyed the style of former more than the latter, but I still don't think that either can be taken as anything close to gospel. They both ignore the aspect that the other takes into account. One being more domestic issues, and the other more foreign influences. And both ask us to assume alot. The intermediary steps are a little skimpy. But both are entertaining pieces of fiction. __________________ "Come in," she said, "I'll give you shelter from the storm."

12-22-2004, 02:35 AM	#6
HappyMan Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,224 Grams: 1,718.22 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	people seem to think that consenquences are only the result of action, not also of inaction. __________________ Bla. and Marijuana.Com Community Posting Guidelines

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate View Forum Leaders Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read

Remove Advertisements Marijuana.com Sponsor
Marijuana.com Advertisement	<a rel='nofollow' href='http://adserver.marijuana.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=a78e9dba&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://adserver.marijuana.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=6&cb=INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE&n=a78e9dba' border='0' alt='' /></a>

12-21-2004, 07:10 AM	#4
SaltWrench Jr. Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 35 Grams: 1,410.75 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	Even being anti-war, I will concede that the anti-war story overlooked more facts than the pro-war story. Thats not to say that I think that those are all there is to the pro/anti war agenda, but the pro-war story overlooked less.

12-22-2004, 02:46 AM	#8
HappyMan Jr. Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 4,224 Grams: 1,718.22 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Stock Portfolio Total Value: 0.000 Gain/Loss: 0.000%	We obviously would all be dancing around a maypole with cute and fuzzy bunnies in each hand.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Marijuana.com

Hot Products: