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Stephanie S.

Dang, that oughtta be a show!



I originally said, aside from the tsunami..what has George done for humanity. The events after 9-11 presented themselves to George. What has he done, of his own accord that didn't drop into his lap?
See, Clinton made it possible for me to attend college...if I was trying now..I woldn't be able to do it with the cuts approved by Bush.

While he was a little slow on the uptake and seems to be offering a lot less than many other nations...OK, props to George for acting along with the rest of the world.

Most people agree that after the battle in Mogadishu, the US became reluctant to get involved into "trouble spots". I would not have supported the US jumping into the middle of the Rwandan genocide...it would have been suicide for our soldiers, as it was in Somalia. It appears to me to have been an issue of humanity, toward American humans, not political.

It seems pretty important to me that rather than pick Clinton apart, you just answer the question...when has George acted with a shred of humanity without havig a fire lit under his ass?

peace

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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005 (Listen to audio)

 

MickityMike

It’s astounding to me that you’re even going down this road. WTF do you want from the man? I’ve showed you instances of humanity, and yet you disqualify them because they “dropped into his lap”? That seems rather petty to me.

Get a student loan (anybody who can't afford college can very easily get one of these), work hard and get a scholarship, or get a friggin’ job.

Acting along with?? How many other countries have the military capacity to actually DO SOMETHING? The US and the Aussies are carrying the bulk, if not the whole damned thing, of the load when it comes to actually delivering the aid. Anyone can pledge monies – who’s gonna be there to physically help?

Maybe this is my bias showing through now, but I can’t help but think that some of you would be falling all over yourselves with praise if this had happened under Clinton instead of Bush...

You’re aware that Clinton refused the requests of US commanders in Somalia for armor, right? Clinton assigned them the mission of capturing and subduing Adid and his boys, but didn’t provide what they wanted to do it. And exactly how was Mogadishu “suicide” for our soldiers?

I didn’t support US direct military intervention in Rwanda either. But I viewed my decision not through the (what I believe to be) false lens of humanitarianism, but through the lens of cold logic. The humanitarian thing to do would’ve been to try to end the slaughter, IMHO. But even so, why did Bill oppose African nations via the UN from intervening and trying to stop it?

When he become the first US president in history to begin to fight the AIDS epidemic in Africa (again, where was Bill?). Even U2’s Bono lauds him for that. Now it’s your turn: What about Bill? (And pity sex with Monica Lewinsky doesn’t count as a humanitarian gesture...)

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I'd be delighted to live in a country where happily married gay couples had closets full of assault weapons. - Glenn Reynolds

jewishjake420

Well since I didn't sleep through the last decade...

He had the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. Yes his foreign policy wasn't the greatest but neither is Bush's.

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awaa?
-S. Cooper

"There's a blaze of light in every word, it doesn't matter which you heard, the holy or the broken HALLELUJAH"

MickityMike

Many of these things had little to nothing to do with who was actually president at the time.

Isn't home ownership at historic levels now? And I'm not taking these things away from Clinton, as I said earlier I too didn't sleep through the last decade and I voted for Bill, but if these things mean that Clinton was a humanitarian, then would you concede the same of Bush? That is, if I can find such things? (AIDS in Africa...)

Keep in mind, scooter, that the question at hand is not whether or not Bill did anything for humanitarian reasons, because I think he did, it's apparently whether George has. And I think he has, as did Clinton.

jewishjake420

I think Bush has done some humanitarian acts but I also believe that he has made more mistakes. I too voted for Clinton and I'm damn proud of it.

 

Stephanie S.

Petty, shmetty. It's the reality. Bush does not act in a humanitarian way unless someone or a tsunami kick his ass.


How did you pay for college, Mike? Me? I took loans and grants and worked two jobs as a single mom. Bill Clinton's administration expanded financial aid for people like me. Your boy George is a cupcake!
Newsflash! from the Seattle Times, 1-6-04"The Department of Education yesterday announced a new formula for calculating eligibility for college financial aid, a move that will eliminate federal Pell Grant scholarships for an estimated 80,000 to 90,000 low-income students and force a modest scaling back of other types of state and federal assistance to broader categories of undergraduates.

The Chronicle of Higher Education called the move the "December Surprise," and Terry Hartle, senior vice president of the American Council on Education, representing 2,000 colleges and universities, said the timing was "unfortunate and probably deliberate."

Bush administration officials said the new formula — used to measure a family's ability to pay college costs — will save the government at least $300 million in the 2005-2006 academic year."


count me outta that one. I don't idolize people like that. I applaud the US effort to help the tsunami people...I applaud the efforts of Japan, Australia and everyone else who have and are helping.

As of December 2004, there are still 3,500 Humvees without protective armor and about 44,000 soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan without adequate body armor, and they have asked for it, and aren't getting it. Bush is no better than Clinton. Somalia was a disaster, maybe not suicide...but I think it would have been a bloody mess if we'd have sent troops to Rwanda. Did you see what they were doing to people there? And why didn't any other nations stand up and do something?


I don't know. Do you?



I guess Bill was reeling from the upshoot in AIDS cases in the 90s. Governments don't stop AIDS...people have to stop it by their choice of actions. Either by not participating in acts which could give them AIDS or by humanitarian efforts to help those who have AIDS..that's what Bill is doing now...The Clinton HIV/AIDS Initiative. I wonder what George will be doing when his presidency is over.

"When President Bush announced his Global AIDS initiative he promised to put 2 million people on life-saving anti-retroviral treatment for AIDS. After almost two years, the State Department announced that the initiative was treating 25,000 AIDS patients, less than 1% of the President’s goal." Global AIDS Alliance....yeah, he's doing a great job!

And we care what Bono thinks because...?

If she enjoyed it, it was entirely humanitarian! Clinton enacted the Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965, The Family and Medical Leave Act, The Clinton and Gore developed and implemented first-ever plan to protect children from tobacco and end tobacco marketing targeted to young people, enacted the Hate Crimes Sentencing Enhancement Act in 1994, Megan’s Law(one of my personal faves), Led diplomatic efforts to end the civil war and foster multi-ethnic democracy in Bosnia,
Restored democracy in Haiti, ending military dictatorship and stopping refugee flows.

Now really, what has Bush done for humans that he wasn't forced to? His efforts after 9-11 and the tsunami are duly noted and appreciated. I think he did a fine job showing his presence after 9-11, I really do. But what has he done of his own initiatve?

peace

MickityMike

Ok. I find it interesting that you perceive such a vast difference between the two men. They seem fairly similar to me.

I worked fulltime.

So, maybe those that aren’t going to be getting a Pell grant this year should just take out a little bit extra in student loans? There ya go – problem solved. Hi, I’m MickityMike, and I solve problems!

You said that you damned near cried when I remarked that I liked Clinton, and even voted for him. That sounds like idol worship to me...

Yeah, I know. That’s kinda been my whole point all along! Both men have their strengths and weaknesses, but it seems to me that an objective point of view should conclude that neither men are evil, and both did and do what they think is right in the end.

Governments don't stop AIDS...people have to stop it by their choice of actions.

Holy ****, I’ve never agreed with you more! It’s like, all of a sudden, you’re thinking like a ... LIBERTARIAN! (Excellent - let the conversion do the Dark Side begin!)

While its true that governments do not stop AIDS, I’d say that Bush’s attempt, even if small, is a fairly big humanitarian gesture by the US government. Especially as how it’s never before happened. But at the same time, let’s not kid ourselves and claim that either men’s AIDS initiatives aren’t in part motivated by politics.

Yeah, what a shock: a socialist government welfare program is failing. Color me “surprised.”

Um, because he’s Bono? Don’t get me wrong, I certainly don’t give a rat’s ass what celebrities think of politics, especially celebrities encouraging the US to mindlessly waste tax money. I just think Bono’s ****in’ cool. U2 is awesome – and for anyone that says differently, I will hunt you down and personally, and quite deliberately, knee you in the genitals.

Ok, Bosnia and Haiti good, most of the rest pure crap and government fluff (although Welfare Reform was by far Bill’s greatest achievement, IMHO). And what’s this crap about you being happy that government is trying to get “the children!” (tug on the heartstrings for me) away from the evil tobacco? Seriously, why is this something that our government should care about and spend money on?

Probably not a whole lot – although I don’t really care enough to learn. But more to the point, what have either men done that was not politically motivated? They’re politicians, it’s what they do. Yes, they’re both very good politicians – Bush hasn’t lost an election in quite a while (*wink, wink*) and Clinton could charm the pants right off fat chicks as he ever so charmingly “felt their pain” – but in essence, both are still politicians way before they’re humanitarians.

MickityMike

I don't know if I agree with that. In the world of hindsight, where mistakes are recognized, I've got quite a laundry list of things that I think Clinton ****ed up on by not seeing the war that was being fought against the US for what it was. My biggest one, obviously, is not getting bin Laden when he had his chances. But like I said, it's only in hindsight where presidential decisions are stamped as either “horrible miscalculation” or “bold and daring” for the rest of history.

Stephanie S.

Or in Bush's case, ::looks into Crystal Ball:: Bold and Daring Horrible Miscalculation! I'm sorry, I just had to say it.

peace