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jewishjake420

Isn't that true with any religion?

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awaa?
-S. Cooper

"There's a blaze of light in every word, it doesn't matter which you heard, the holy or the broken HALLELUJAH"

 

^_^truth

It was a joke Mickity, a very sarcastic poorly planed joke. But you are right, your views aren't that far out there in comparison with much of the world. Where as my ideals, are basically that of peace-loving, tree-hugging hippies...at least that is how the media always ties my beliefs in to the rest of the world. But that is for another thread (Once I find a decent article to bring up that topic, because I am too lazy to write my own).


Then will you agree that the southern Baptist sect of Christianity has been growing in influence substantially over the past few years? It has gotten to the point where it has "hijacked" the Texas GOP (Read the platform here). This sect, and many of the other more extreme portions of Christianity’s leaders are fighting to return things to how they interpret The Bible within the states.

The less tolerant are growing, and pretty soon they won't be a minority. That scares me.

And that is your opinion, just as it is my opinion that ignoring them will deprive them of the attention they need to keep their steam going.

To the point of a Jihad; to many extents yes. The only other way to quell a Jihad, aside from preventing it from picking up enough steam to draw in the masses through peaceful compromises and acceptance of a few of its views is to start an opposing Jihad and cause the mass extermination of that form of humanity...and that is just wrong.

Motivation is a dangerous thing, especially when hate is the blind motivator.

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Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Nietzsche

MickityMike

Yeah, I know, dude. I was just giving you ****.

But yeah, you mean, you guys don’t really make love to trees all day long in the woods?

“Hey, guys, I found one with a knothole in it!”

I don’t know – why don’t you try proving that its influence has grown? I take it that this is the first time that the Texas GOP has had this in their platform? If so, and even if it’s not the first time, how successful have the “hijackers” actually been at influencing the States to enact biblical forms of law? I don’t buy it.

Why do you say that they’re growing? Are you expecting a Reichstag event? Are they gonna burn a giant statue of Jesus on the steps of the Capitol and then turn around and say that it was actually the “tree-****ers” that did it? Until you can show me some concrete evidence otherwise, I’ll assume that the rate of intolerance is, at the least, remaining steady. (dv/dt = c)

How’s it gone the past few decades with the “just ignore ‘em” strategy? Has the problem remained the same, gotten better, or gotten worse? It seemed to me to be a steadily increasing problem, what with the steady increase in terrorist attacks on US citizens and interests and all. 9/11 was the impetus needed to try something different.

This I completely agree with. (You just let me know when the Islamists are ready for a “peaceful compromise.”) That’s why we’re trying to NOT go the route of mass extermination. But don’t think that we can’t... or reach a point where we won’t. What do you think might be the reaction of the American public if one nuclear device were to detonate in an American city? Two devices in two cities? How far do I have to count here before the unconscionable suddenly becomes reasonable?

It seems to me that treating the problem as a question of ignorance, ignore it and it’ll go away, is a recipe for eventual and certain calamity. It seems to me that we ought to try something new, and try to prevent any sort of jihad by anybody. This is why I keep arguing that we should mount an ideological democratic “attack” on the region – it’s my view that tyranny is the pillar of Islamism.

Yep, you’re right: a motivated enemy is usually a dangerous one. So, we shouldn’t fight dangerous enemies that attack us? Is that what you’re saying?

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I'd be delighted to live in a country where happily married gay couples had closets full of assault weapons. - Glenn Reynolds

^_^truth

I see you have buffed up on your calculus but since you are talking about a rate of influence it shouldn't be dv/dt it should be di/dt=c, dv would be acceleration, and dv/dt would be the rate at which the accleration is changing...and that would be just a little odd.

Anyway back to the subject at hand.

Here are a few articles concerning the growth of the Religious Right (When I have more time to research it I will look up the stats...so you have won this part of the arguement for now).

http://www.alternet.org/story/15221

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v16n2/PE_butler2.htm

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v16n2/PE_butler2.htm (and if you manage to get this one to work again I will be amazed)


But moving on:

Now I am not stating to ignore the entire situation in the Middle East, what I am saying is that we stop giving the reactions the Jihiadists want.

Particularly we need to stop getting involved with things when we aren't asked to.

But as to your question as to how the ignoring them idea has worked: I would say Fairly well, 9/11 was a sign of desperation not of outright siege. Terrorists don't have the means, statisticly, to take down an entire nation. They do have the means to influence an entire nation though.

When nations react with fear and revenge on their minds, they fuel terrorism more than anything else because it is throwing the chance for more hate to come into the mix.

Once the U.S. and Western World refuse to do business with the Middle East and outright leave to let the countries sort it out for themselves, the Extremists will be ready to compromise, because then the "infidels" will be gone in their ideas. Remeber, Islam is normally fairly peaceful, once the extremists run out of things to hate, support for them should fall.

No, I am saying we find an alternitive motivation for them. The best way to take down a dangerous motivated enemy is to strike down its motivation. No motivation=no problems. The key is to make the people of the Middle East we are people just like them, we just happen to have a large majority of people that believe in something else.

It's just too bad people that are using their religious beliefs for political affairs. If only people weren't so committed to their ideals were more open minded.

^_^truth

I can't believe this passed me by:

Well as a matter of fact, there are a few of us....but that is for another day

 

MickityMike

Yeah, it's kinda crucial to my job. Anyhoo, it's not the rate of change of acceleration, it is the acceleration. (Acceleration = rate of change in velocity). Now, who's your engineering daddy??

Ah yes, victory is mine! Suffer! But seriously, I have yet to see compelling evidence regarding this supposed rise.

Ok, I think you’re wrong since the terror attacks have steadily and undeniably progressed over at least the past 20 years. You’re advocating that we walk on eggshells as they continue to attack, for fear of further agitating them?

What are some of the things that the Islamists hate? Israel? Should we let Israel live and die on its own vine? What about the Kingdom of Andalusia – should we give the Islamists the country of Spain? (Sorry, Spaniards!) What about their stated desire for all non-Muslims to convert to Islam?

Exactly how do you expect them to run out of things to hate simply because we’ve decided to ignore them as best we can? What if the thing they hate, as transcripts appear to show the extremist leaders saying, is the very existence of a secular democratic West?

That’s ALL we have to do? Find them an alternative motivation? Ah well, that should be easy enough... Maybe one way to end the motivation of the Islamists is to get the ball rolling on the end of tyranny?

Yes, it is. However, it is happening and we have to deal with it one way or another. I see what you suggest as little more than a campaign of appeasement at the expense of a far costlier future war.

^_^truth

Wait, wait your right, I looked at the notation incorrectly. I was assuming that you were using the accleration (dv) divided by the differnetal time. My bad, you were just using another form of notation to express your point. I again tip my hat and bow to your superior engineering powess (for now at least...)

Radical Islamists hate: Israel for taking part of there land, Secular society in the West for supporting Israel, the concept of greed, any country that states that its biblical views are correct, and spain.

Lets look at our options with Israel if we left it to fend for itself: Israel has nukes so all they have to do is state that if anyone attacks them they will bomb all of their neighbors, the U.N/U.S. could outright destroy Jerusilim thus ending the area that is being fought over (nuke it = non-inhabitible "holy land" everyone's pissed, but fighting over the area ends), or turn the major contested reigions of Israel into international regions. Essentailly turn Jerusilm, Giza, and West Bank into Berlins during the cold war.

Secular Society's support of Israel- Here's how we deal with this, we let it go. We finally just let the people of Israel deal with their self-inflicted problems. Remeber they brought this on themselves when they claimed the land after WWII.

Greed- Big issue to some, but not all to all of the radicals (I need to find that article around here somewhere concerning this greviance). Western Civilation needs to learn to avoid excess were possible.

Opposing Bibilical Views- Stress upon the nation(s) that isn't just one religion there are multiple religions and thus tolerance is needed. Also the prevention of stating that a country is an opposing faction of Islam may also be a good idea.

Spain- Well we can't give this up, but I am sure Spain would be more than willing to make a few changes when dealing with Islamics.

Remember what may be tyranny to us may be perfectly fine in the eyes of the Islamic people. So when you state tyranny you are stating a western ideal of tyranny; while Middle Eastern'er believe that tyranny is in America.

Finding an alternitive motivation, one that brings them into a less extreme mentality is quite a difficult task but I do believe it can be done.


Remember, War is never a solution it is only a problem. It is for people whos imangination has run out. Appasement is a possible step, but I will never say it is the best, I just think that advoidance of war should always be prority number 1 for any country.

Oh and as for the posts that I made, the last web address should be somewhere on
http://www.palestainnews.com/ though you will have to search for it..

MickityMike

Excellent...

I don't know, I'd rather the Israelis have another option short of nuking their enemies... And I agree that the formation of Israel in that region was probably not the wisest of ideas, yet it is there. I don't think we should abandon Israel to their tyrannical neighbors anymore than I think we should abandon Taiwan to the Chinese or should have abandoned Western Europe to the Soviets during the Cold War.

So we need to change our culture to keep them from attacking us? Uh, how about they just learn to accept our culture as is and just stop attacking us?

So after we give into these demands, what might they want next? No offense intended, but it seems incredibly foolish to think that if only we give them enough, they'll stop trying to kill us.

What if our efforts at appeasement don't appease them enough? Then what do we do?

I'm pretty sure tyranny is the same all over. Especially when it's a brutal form of fascism as practiced in pre-invasion Iraq and as it's still practiced in Ba'athist Syria, or a brutal form of Islamism as practiced in other ME states. How else to explain the growing rise of reformist groups throughout the region advocating democratic government? Every time you turn around the Iranians are crushing yet another student pro-Western, pro-democracy demonstration. The Egyptians have some fairly large problems with Islamist and pro-democracy groups advocating change. There's also something similar in Lebanon. We need to provide direct aid and support to these groups advocating democratic government and some modicum of human rights at the very least.

Short of war, how do you expect it to be done? Have you any good ideas?

Why is war "never a solution"? I think that's a truism of those that don't like the idea of nation-states solving their problems with war, but history seems to be replete with examples. How many times have problems been solved and periods of peace reigned after a war was fought and won/lost?

MickityMike

I was not living before the 9th of April and now I am, so let me speak!

A Free Iraqi:

Puffer

Originally posted by ^_^truth:
Tyranny exists in all forms of government, even governments founded in religion. At its core, democracy is, in fact, a tyranny perpetrated by the majority over the minority.

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Just say "know" to marijuana!