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Hiz Highness

You're picking at nits that have no bearing on the conversation. I also notice you leave out the military coup he pulled in 1999 to gain control of Pakistan. Pretty selective editing on your part.

Apparently it's ok for a dictator to seize power as long as three years later he gets "voted" in as president (Hey, wasn't Saddam 'voted' in as president too? Amazing how dictators manage to pull that off). This is exactly the type of half-assed reasoning people need to use in order justify Americans dying to 'free' Iraq.

None of the excuses offered for this war can stand up to any sort of scrutiny. Saddam didn't have the WMD's (though other enemies of the US do), he certainly wasn't the greatest threat to American security, he was no more a ruthless dictator than countless other dictators on earth . . . the pro-war crowd has nothing. Any half-assed reason they throw out there can be applied to a more suitable country, at which point they'll come up with another excuse, and another, and another.


-HH

 

Herb Ninja

What? I think you just hate freedom. Peace, HN-

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Hiz Highness

HAhahahahhahahahahah


I don't hate it nearly as much as my government does.

-HH

DonkeyPunch

Some PakiFacts, from the CIA.

Let it be noted that the April 30th election was not an election, but a referendum which was voted on by around 30% of the country and included no opposition.

Pakistan is no friend of ours, IMHO, not now, and not in recent history. Their intelligence community sheilded Osama bin Laden from our pre-9/11 attacks, and had long given the Taliban support while paying lip service to the US.

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YouLiveAndLearn

You guys are CRAZY.

I thought this was the break room. A place where we could all come and as us younger folks say "chill" and talk about such things as sports. I still love reading all this though so keep it coming. Someday I'll have enough of my own knowledge and opinions to join you guys but until then I'll keep reading and enjoying it.

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Niteshift

You're picking at nits that have no bearing on the conversation.

You ASKED what form of government they had.

I also notice you leave out the military coup he pulled in 1999 to gain control of Pakistan. Pretty selective editing on your part.

Did I? I said :"True, Musharraf took power while a military officer" Exactly how is that avoiding it when I said he TOOK power as a military officer?

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A burning desire for social justice is never a substitute for knowing what you're talking about. -Thomas Sowell

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is muzzle flash.

Hiz Highness

. . . and the answer is a military dictatorship that masquarades as a federal republic.

I missed that part. Good. You know he's a dictator. I know he's a dictator. We all know he's a dictator.

-HH

HappyMan

As dictators go, Musharraf is quite reasonable. He may be one of, or, the 'best' dictators around. Musharraf may be a dictator, but he is not a Stalinist dictator. Pakistan enjoys freedoms that do not exist in most other dictatorships. The country has an active and vocal press for one. I do not want to condone any dictator, but there are plently of examples of people who are far worse.

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MickityMike

It’s almost certainly true when you say that no Middle East country would’ve done the same for us, yet (in my mind anyway) that’s not sufficient reason. At the same time, simply spreading democracy for the sheer sake of having democracy in the Middle East surely isn’t worth even one single drop of American blood either.

Now, having said all that, I don’t think that the spreading of democracy alone was “The Reason.” In my mind, and this is something that I’ve been harping on since shortly after 9/11 (yeah, I realize that you’re all probably beyond sick of reading it by now), the spread of democracy in the Mid-East is necessary if we’re to find a solution for the long-term problem of Islamic fundamentalist violence. To do anything less than attempt to address the long-term concerns posed by theocratic and fascist Middle Eastern tyrannies is only to prolong the inevitable, IMHO.

It seems rather short-sighted to pursue a short-term goal of destroying al-Qaeda, when it’s fairly clear that al-Qaeda is but one militant group, and that there are many more supported and encouraged by state sponsors all over the region.

So, if the question is phrased in, no offense at all intended by the way, very simplistic terms of simply making Iraq democratic just for the sake of democracy and nothing more, the obvious answer is no, it’s not worth American blood and treasure. But if the question is posed as what should we do to curb this extremism, removing the tyrannical governments in the region makes much more sense. We’re only doing this because, in the end, we think we will be better off for it, and really the whole meme of “spreading freedom across the region” is purely self-interested.

Why was the first US major offensive campaign after Pearl Harbor an invasion of Morocco? Well, it was necessary in the larger context and strategy of defeating the Axis powers. If the Coalition succeeds in Iraq, and I’ll still concede that that’s a very big “if”, then we’ll be in a much better position. In the short-term, military posturing and diplomatic pressure from the US will be much more intimidating to the surrounding nations which still sponsor Islamic militants, and in the long-term, Iraq will (hopefully) serve as an example of prosperity and liberal government in a sea of tyranny.

Well, in the context of the article, I’d have to say that the author is wondering whether he was right when he claimed that democracy could work in Iraq. It’s in no way yet been proven, as many have correctly pointed out, one election does no democracy make, but the signs thus far are encouraging.

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MickityMike

Hahaha, that's funny, I don't remember claiming that I "lusted" for anyone...

(Sometimes my fiance reads this board - she'll kill me!)